Teenage DC and contact

[yawnanotherone]

I'll try to keep it short - as always there's a looooong story! Husband moved out two weeks ago and we are divorcing after 29 year relationship. I found out over the last few months that he has been a serial cheat. We have 2 DC, 16 and 13. He was broadly honest about why we were divorcing, because they had seen some messages between us on my phone and we didn't know how much they knew already.

Anyway, since moving out he has been trying to see them but they are really uncomfortable about it. It is such early days and I am sure they will rebuild something with him eventually.

But he is messaging them constantly, trying to get the DS16 to convince the younger to see him. DS hates being the go-between and is getting very stressed by it (he has ASD so even more uncomfortable). DD13 is furious and hurt and closes down any mention of seeing her dad.

So what can I and should I do? I despise everything about the man but I do want the children to have a relationship with him. We have had a couple of sessions of mediation but there is no point talking about when and how to see them when they are just not ready. I am also concerned that any opinion or input I have will be taken as interfering.

I have never walked in your shoes so my views and opinions are just there as a thought.

I think if I was in this situation, I would try and find the upper hand ability to remind the children of fun / nice things they did with their dad. It is very possible to be a horrible husband / wife / partner AND a decent father. By you being able to speak positively about him 'do you remember when we went to Spain and dad broke the sun lounger and we all fell about laughing' type memories might allow the children to realise they don't have to choose. They can dislike what he did as your partner but still love him as a dad.

I know this will be very difficult for you because you hate the man.

The previous poster is a better person than me. I wouldn't be forcing or facilitating contact at all. I would be clear to your ex on mediation the effect his constant communication is having on your eldest and suggest he backs off and leaves it to them to contact him. If he chooses not to then I'm sure your eldest knows how to work their phone to mute him so they can choose when and how to answer/reply. They are old enough to make their own decisions. And they are old enough to know what kind of person their father is and make an informed judgement for themselves about how much they want to see/contact him

I have been in your situation and I think that you should do nothing. Your children are old enough to have their own opinions and make their own decisions. Anytime you do or say one way of the other will end up being thrown back in your face.

The more you get involved, the more your ex will put the blame on you.

There is no rush here, it is not the kind of situation where teens are making irrevocable decisions. Perhaps they just need some time and space to come to terms with what’s happened and work out what THEY want. Their dad will still be around if they change their mind in a few weeks or months.

Id step RIGHT back and tell the kids that it’s up to them whether they see him or not, you will support them either way. That no decision is permanent , they don’t have to commit to anything . They can make a plan for the next few weeks / months and then review it.

They can try no contact, low contacts, texts only or perhaps one or two zoom calls a week . It doesn’t have to be face to face if they don’t want that.

With most teens, the more you push, the more they back off.

Tell them it’s ok for them to take some time to decide and to tell their dad that’s what they need.

You need to give your 16 yo permission to tell his dad that he will no longer be a go between. And that if his father doesn’t respect that boundary , he may need to make other choices.

I had to tell my kids very firmly that they had to respect their siblings privacy, as the one who had contact was giving dad info about the others that they didn’t want shared. Ex was then using that to pretend to his friends and family that he has a lot of contact with all the kids , which wasn’t true. In his case, he didn’t care about seeing the kids but he REALLY cared about how bad it looked on him.

I would defo NOT try to do the “ he's a great guy really , remember the fun we had “ routine. I’m sure your kids are not stupid and they will see right through your attempts to Manipulate and guilt trip them. They’ve had enough lies and dishonesty in their lives from their father, they don’t need it from you too.

You are not your ex husbands PR person, your only responsibility is to your kids and what’s best for them.

I think you may need to remind EXH that they are allowed to be angry and upset with him for splitting up the family as well, and that he needs to give them some space to let the dust settle and for them to digest everything that has happened. It's still early days. Make clear that you will continue to encourage contact, but that they are currently overwhelmed and need some time.

I think you message him, explaining that at the moment, your dd does not want to see her dad, and your ds is profoundly unhappy at being used as a go-between. And he is trying to USE him.

He has to understand that they need time to process the news, to get their head around his behaviour. That his wishes are not what counts at the moment.

He needs to back off, take a softer approach, and stop pressurising them.

He decided to wear cunt shoes...
You respect your dc's choice for now.

Thank you all for SUCH helpful feedback. I sent a very business-like email to say how they are feeling and remind him why. And to say that all throughout he has said he will do what is best for them - and that is to give them space and time. He didn't reply so I hope he just read and accepted.

And I have said the same to them re their choice, their pace.

He is coming round today to give DD a birthday present and she has agreed he can come in briefly (not my choice, but she wants that present!) and then he can feck off again in his cunt shoes!

I did, at first, try the 'he's your dad and he loves you' line, but DD told me to stop making out he's a good guy. She's not easily manipulated thankfully, and I hope that means she'll take this into her future and stay clear of knobheads

Well you've put your finger on the main issue, haven’t you? If you tell your kids

“ you have to put up with bad treatment because of X and your feelings don’t count as much as his because of Y and you are not allowed to have an opinion about moral issues because of Z”

what does that teach them about adult relationships ?

Yes your boyfriend hit you / your GF cheated on you but they were drunk so that doesn't count .
No it’s not stalking / harassment, it’s a sign that he really loves you.
Your feelings dont matter as much as their feelings , you need to put them first.
Yes you are scared of being let down again but that’s just you being paranoid.
Well they said they are sorry, what’s else do you want, you are unreasonable.
Yes they treat you badly but they earn a lot / are good looking / have a prestigious job / come from a good family/ you have kids together so you need to stay.
You are being judgemental, most other men / women would be cool about it.

I agree with the above

What does it teach your children about what is acceptable in a marriage / family - if someone can treat someone so appallingly with such lack of respect but that he's still a good person because he loves his kids

If he loved his children he wouldn't have cheated on their mother

Your eldest could be eligible to vote in elections very shortly - so you can't say she is old enough and mature enough to elect the next prime minister but they aren't mature enough to decide when/how much they see someone?

I completely agree with you @lazysummerdayz and I am not getting involved any more. If my kids tell me he is hassling them, I will support them to stick up for themselves. I get daily lengthy emails about either how broken he is or how reasonable he is. Today was a blinder - how he hopes one day we can communicate without acrimony. If that kind of gaslighting that is going on with DCs I will lose it though.

Does anyone know how I can completely detach? Is there a good app that is purely yes/no/necessary info only and doesn't allow the fountain of bullshit?

I think you need to model decent behaviour and let them make up their own minds.

I would talk to them about how human beings are complex and that few people are simply ‘bad’ or ‘good’, and that good people can behave badly in some areas of their lives. I would also explain how parent/child relationships have a value to both the parent and child and, that while you appreciate them empathising with you, it shouldn’t permanently destroy their relationship with their father.

I think that they are OK to be cross and upset.

I would encourage them to text their father that they are angry and not ready to see him yet and that he should leave them be for now and that they will come back to him when they are ready.

It sounds like you are doing the right thing anyway.