Settlement offers advice

[Clarasaden]

Hi, I'm self repping and have received all documents late or not at all from the other side. With just a few weeks before FH i have received an updated disclosure, a without prejudice offer and an open offer all together plus saying that I am using the court unnesacarily if I dont accept and go ahead to final hearing.

I am wondering if this is tactical as I thought you went through without prejudice negotiations first before any open offer letters which the court can see are sent so I feel really under pressure.

Obviously need time to digest the disclosure too.
We have an extra directions hearing just prior to the final hearing as some time back I applied to the court due to the way the other party was dealing (or not dealing) with the court ordered directions so in a nutshell we have an fda in 2 weeks time, a final hearing in 4 weeks time and I have 7 days to decide about this offer! I'm absolutely terrified about going to court with no legal assistance but I don't want to panic and accept it a rubbish offer if they are trying to trip me up.

They are also saying its a short marriage, only 4 years but we lived together over 20.

Would so much appreciate any insight, we are a needs case, not loads of assets to divvy up.

i cannot wait for this horror to be over, its the worst thing ive ever encountered

Thanks everyone x

Did you have an idea of what you were expecting to get out of it OP? Do you have an idea of what there was to split, and based on that do you feel the offer you’ve received is fair?

They are right in that 4 years is a short marriage in legal terms and that does impact how things are split at the point you get to court, for example if one of you owned a house before the marriage then it’s more likely after only 4 years that that property would be returned to the original owner rather than split 50/50.

There is only the house and small pension of mine as assets . House bought jointly over 20 years ago. I don't think it's fair, offer is for me to have a tiny bit over 50% and pension share offset by money I apparently owe for bills paid after the split! I didn't know that was coming.

Obviously with children I'd hoped to stay where we are and not sell. I do appreciate there will have to be compromise but I feel a without prejudice and open offer being sent together I'm being backed in a corner and they've also said the other party has no work.....that's just not true. It's so frustrating as there is just one lie after the other and I've been nothing but truthful.

I don't understand the short marriage as I thought long cohabitation would count..

They do sometimes consider cohabitation but there are cases where that wouldn’t be so relevant, you’d really be best off getting some proper legal advice.

Unless you can buy him out of the home, you’re not going to be able to stay where you are and not sell. So with that in mind I’d have a think about what you can reasonably expect.

If you feel he is being unfair definitely seek legal advice.

Thanks, unfortunately I've used up all funds on legal advice.
I have accepted I will probably have to sell it was more about the whether it's normal to receive a without prejudice offer and open offer at the exact same time. I feel they are backing me in a corner rather than doing fair negotiations

It's not unheard of to get two offers at the same time. Are the offers the same?

No, not the same, just a couple of percent more on one.

If i thought the judge would definitely see all the lies i wouldn't even consider the offer but i sometimes think the more you tell the truth the worse off you seem to end up. I don't know if i can take more stress but the thought of telling the children they wouldn't be able to fit there stuff into a new bedroom and they won't be getting a garden anymore is killing me. Obviously i wouldn't put it that bluntly but at the end of the day thats what will happen.

If i took it to the final hearing could i end up with less that 50%? At the moment i'm not being offered much more so wondering if its a case of i've nothing to loose

How old are the children, OP?

If you have any funds spare, it might be worth it to go over their offers with a barrister (I'll give you the name of mine- he is direct access and incredible. He helped me to understand why my ex's really good offer was really actually quite a shitty one and what I needed to be asking for- all in a very succinct and clear way- and what I ought to expect). The needs of the children will come into play.
Have you come to an agreement regarding the child arrangements?

what the hell… refuse the offers and go to court, it is a no brainer. A judge is not going to make you and your children leave the home… it’s in their best interests to stay in their home. If you do want to sell I would still go to court, what they are offering is less than a judge would grant, especially if you are the sole carer of the children.

Oh thank you, thats really helpful of you, certainly would help to talk it over. Haven't got the money to keep using a solicitor anymore but I think a one off would help enormously.

Children are 10 and nearly 13. The older one is obsessed with the bedroom at the mo, must be a nearly teenage thing that makes the whole tiny bedroom thing even worse, keeps asking if I can decorate it 😩 I'm trying to stall it without burdening them with the we might have to move out bombshell until I have a definite plan in place

Op - they won't go less than 50-50 if it's a needs case and you are the lower earner and primary carer. Are the children mostly with you and would there be significant upheaval for them if you sold, ie would it necessitate a change to schooling/ routines? Their welfare, needs & wellbeing will be first and foremost in the judge's mind. Focus on on them in all you push for and stick to facts and I think it is worth pushing through to FH. P60 history, income and mortgage capacity for you and him and don't get derailed by emotions.

I say this as someone who was in a similar position. Also a LIP and also dealing with proper failure to disclose and an ex who splurged on expensive barristers. i got a far better outcome at FH than if I had accepted any of the without prejudice or open offers from my ex (who thought I should get less than 50% even as primary carer and much lower earner as had taken a career break). It was a horrific drawn out thing but now I'm actually glad it did go to FH as I got a equality of income in retirement (PSOs), a greater equity share and we stay in house until they finish A levels. This is actually more likely the older they are as it is time limited. I had however been covering mortgage and bills and ex had enough funds/ income to easily rent in the interim. Judge also agreed for me to switch mortgage y interest only which was great as I can save the difference rather than add to ex's equity pot. With CMS snd UC top up I'm better off than I thought. My ex loathes me whatever I do anyway by virtue of going the court route and not settling for what he wanted. The house is so peaceful and happy now I can't tell you. Kids are thriving and I feel like they are finally seeing what it looks like to live in a house where there is cooperation, kindness and patience. It's made them much closer too. I love it so much and it has made all the stress worth it. I will need to sell and downsize later on but I'm fine with that as it will just be me and it's quite liberating to think I could live anywhere/ do something completely different. Stay strong. The end is in sight and the system puts the kids first. Trust in that.

I think I'd expect 50/50. If you can get that without going to court then avoid the stress.

You can’t say that a judge is not going to make her and the kids leave the home! If she can’t afford to buy him out and take over the mortgage herself then that’s exactly what will happen. Not trying to scaremonger, I just want OP to have accurate and realistic advice!

Judges can and frequently do order a sake of marital home so no one hear can say say a judge in this case won’t expect house to be sold !

This is not true, ignore this OP.

People are frequently ordered to sell the home with children. The idea that the children must remain in the family home (and by default so should the mother) is for the birds.

Op you really need legal advice

It sounds like the length of time co-habiting prior to marriage will be taken into consideration as you have joint DC.

Have you been the primary carer taking on lower paid roles to cover for childcare?

Are the DC going to share their time 50:50 or mostly with you?

It sounds like not using a solicitor would be a false economy this close to the end.

Oh thanks everyone, I've been up all night, crying, stressing followed by crying and coffee, lots of lol, thank goodness my kids are heavy sleepers, I'm pulling myself together before I hear footsteps thundering down the stairs
I do have them more but not by much, 80/20 I think it works out.
I was the lower earner but other side well n truly cooked up the books so seems I am now, they have well n truly stitched me up.

I think it's even more hurtful when you've been completely honest yourself, but maybe I've nothing to loose by going to FH. I just want to do my children proud. Staying in the area for their schools doable but in a very undesirable part of town but I don't think the court will care about that too much.

Moment...I'm really glad you've got yourself to a good place, I can't imagine what a normal life is anymore so you've given me a bit of hope

Hotness....I appreciate you making sure the facts are correct

Erm 80:20 - that's hugely more with you!

Costa incurred post separation aren't usually factored in.

It sounds like you do need legal representation with someone highly recommended that gets good outcomes for those in your situation. A lying bully ex.

You need to take the emotion out of it as the judge will.

If the dc are with you the majority of the time this will make a difference to your settlement
If the house is in your name this will make a difference
If your dh can prove he contributed to the house, this will make a difference
If the pension was amassed before the marriage it will make a difference
If you've only been married 4 years it will also make a difference
If you bought the house before you got married this will make a difference
If either of you have debts it will also make a difference

All of this will be taken into consoderation

Yep the gift that keeps on giving, suddenly out of work too, funny that!
Sorry wasn't sure what you meant by costa? It's probably me, my brains malfunctioning now lol

Yes I've always been the primary carer but even thats being used against me. I can't think how much lower they'll go...how on earth do people turn like this. Ive never said a bad word to the kids but by god am i having to hold it in 🤐
I think you're right that I'm going to have to really think about finding some money for legal advice as I'm just getting further and further out of my depth here.
I really do appreciate you all taking the time to advise me, there are good people out there and it's helped enormously thank you x

Periods of cohabitation before marriage count towards the length of the relationship and the complexity of your interdependence. Negating who paid what and when.

If you are both Co parenting and there is enough equity for you both to buy then your housing needs will be roughly the same. What kind of parenting agreement are you moving towards?

Are you accepting his declared income and assets? If so, on what basis because you are going to need substantiate any challenge.

Being emotional in family court is fine. But emotions aren’t contentions and evidence. You need to start constructing relevant arguments and reasons to stay in the family home.

It's quite normal to put in open offer and WP offer at the same time. It's usually done for one of two reasons: either they are trying to put pressure on you or their offer is actually pretty spot on and they've done it on an open basis to show how "reasonable" they are being early on. And sometimes to save costs.

It's hard for anyone to advise without details of your actual finances because really that's what it comes down to. Definitely long marriage with your cohab included.

80/20 is highly unlikely unless your spouse is a very high earner usually. If he is not currently working, focus on his earning capacity - what he has earned in the past and what he can sensibly earn if in work. Just because he isn't working or barely working right now doesn't mean that is long term.

Legal advice, although expensive, is worth it! Good luck!

80:20 is the shared care arrangement with an offer of what seems to be only 50:50 on finances.

I am so impressed with the way you are dealing with this.
I am at a similar stage but have lawyers that are costing a fortune - didn’t know how anyone managed to navigate this alone.
My ex is playing all those tricks.
But it is true that the judge expects both parties to try to negotiate and avoid the final hearing and if he makes an offer that the and or greater than the judge would award then you can be liable for his cost. At the FDA, the judge will say what he thinks the final judge is likely to say and you are supposed to negotiate on that. The timing between your FDA and final hearing is very short -4weeks? Ours is several months..😔

I had been married for 22 years with 3 DC 19, 16 and 8. Our 8 year old was in an independent school. I was offered 22 percent by my ex and pension sharing. We had a house almost paid for and a business. Our pensions were similar but his pot a bit bigger. I refused. Then he offered me without prejudice that I kept the house and finish paying the mortgage and he kept the business. The business was worth far more than the house. I refused. I countered by asking for valuation of business then add that to house valuation and go 50/50 and keep our own pensions and pay 50/50 for DS's school fees. He refused. We went to court. The judge told him off for being unreasonable. He said most men would have bitten my hand off. The judge awarded me 63 percent of house/business because DC would be living with me and ex would have one evening in the week and every other weekend, to be offset so I could remain in house with DC and i'd be given chance to buy him out. Ex would have to buy me out of business and we'd do pension sharing. Ex kept shouting in court and the judge threatened him with contempt.