Taking children abroad after divorce

[Scarlet201]

Hello.
My (soon to be ex) husband and I have 3 children aged 8,5 and 2. We live in the uk but both have families in different countries. He has never been a hands on parent, in fact all the care for them has always been purely my job, I have fed them every meal, changed all their nappies, woke up to them every night, taken them to all appointments and all their activities.. all throughout the marriage he was never really interested in spending any time with them besides giving them a quick cuddle every now and then or when they're older, watching Tv with them. At most he'd take them to the park for an hour if I asked him to.
I have been taking the kids to see my family (a 2 hour flight away) regularly and he never had any objections, never really missed them when they were away. He often takes trips as well, doesn't even call the kids when he's away.
Now that we're separating, he suddenly wants 50% custody and to be able to take them to see his family (a 24 hour flight away) for a month at a time.
I am not comfortable to be so far away from my kids for that long, especially with someone who's never taken care of them for more than a few hours at a time and his mother who is a toxic narcissistic person and a terrible influence on the children. It breaks my heart to even think about them being taken away for that long, or thinking that if anything were to happen, I can't be with them. But he just tell me that I'm not that important to them. My middle child is currently on the waiting list for an autism diagnosis as well, but his side of the family just says that I'm making it up and refuse to take it seriously.
Is there anything I can do, or do I just have to accept the situation?
thank you for reading my post.

So what arrangements do you think are fair and reasonable? It’s reasonable he can take them to his familly. How long would you be comfortable with? What arrangements would you propose and agree?

a court would agree a trip to his family ( not sure on the month at at time ). You need to come up with a proposal of contact and holidays which will involve longer durations in summer holidays for example.

have you provided an alternative proposal ?

They all say this shit when they're dumped, I imagine the chances of him following this through will be slim to none. Both the 50% care and the holiday. Especially the holiday once he realises the 50% is so hard. I'd start by quickly sending them for half the week asap and gauge how he gets on.

Unfortunately he wants to book the holiday right now. And the thing is that he might not find it hard because all he does with the kids is put the TV on and order takeout or something - that’s going to be how he spends 50% of the week or whatever time he gets with them, which is easy enough for him. He doesn’t want to look after the 2 year old until she’s older as well. She’s still in nappies and he doesn’t do nappies and generally just can’t be bothered with a toddler.

So what’s your proposal ?

I would be asking him to come up with a schedule to increase his time with then from where it is now to 50:50.

Start with every other weekend and one overnight during the week.

I would suggest a trial of him having them for a week solo whilst you are elsewhere and him doing the school and nursery run, all the overnights etc.

Oh and EOW is Friday after school to Monday morning so he has to do all of that juggling.

He takes the kids or he doesn't. He can't just pick the easier kids.
As PP said, come up with a proposal. Say that at 2 years it's too long for one month but 2 weeks is OK. If he books the flights now that's his risk to take.
I'd also agree with pushing more contact now so he can see how hard is it. 50 50 means EVERYTHING during his time. He sorts school homework logistics etc. Do not step in. Even if it means that stuff goes wrong for a week or two. Do not agree to help or pick up kids or any of it.
He has to understand what he's asking for and unfortunately that will be the hard way

Do you work op?
if not, it’s likely you’ll need to going to full time if not already within the next few years
which will mean both of you navigating drop offs, childcare , holidays etc
thats also something to consider when thinking child arrangements not just now but moving forward

My XH started like this - it was more a way of threatening me than what he actually wanted, and yours sounds the same. As everyone has suggested give him a good taste of it now, without his mother around to help, and definitely including the youngest one. I doubt he’ll last a week, especially as he’s done nothing up to now…I think suggest a weekend first “so you can have some time to yourself” (he won’t like that either) and then it’s not too long for you to cope with. And don’t be on hand whilst he’s doing it, or get everything set up for him, if he wants 50/50 let him see the reality of it…

@millymollymoomoo

Got any supportive suggestions??

Which country? That could potentially make a huge difference.

A month at a time for small children, especially if he does not care for them regularly is far too long.

But he can’t take them abroad without your consent anyway, unless he obtains a Court Order, or has an order already stating that they are to live with him.

who has their passports?

@urbanbuddha
i don’t t need to

rather than the op just saying what she doesn’t want, she needs to think about something she does which is child centric and allows both parents and active is renting parenting role..

and it can’t just be based on that so far dad has not had them much - both their roles will change now so they need to work on something that works for all

maybe That’s eow, maybe 50:50, we dont know , but op is not reasonable to simply say he can’t take them to his family. She needs to think about what that might look like, eg 2 weeks not 4, or not this year but next year, or whatever rather than simply try to dictate

In these situations it's the opportunity he has to step up and be a good involved parent.

I agree currently a month for a 2 year old with a parent has a hands off relationship with them is unfair on the child. Very unfair.

It is unreasonable to not offer the ability for that to happen in the future and what steps need to occur to get there.

Yes - I’ve suggested shorter visit, or a holiday in Europe rather than a different continent (his parents are able to do that) but he’s saying if I don’t consent to him going for a month now, he’s not going to consent to me taking them abroad either. I’ve also wanted to wait for the ASD assessment to happen, so that I’ve got something formal to go by regarding the middle child. He’s someone who’s not open to negotiating.

Don't be bullied OP. Just write back and restate that you consent to a sensible duration holidays given he has not taken them away for this long before. If he wants to object then he can apply to court for a special issues order.

What are the arrangements currently? If he's already having them 50/50, then arguably, him taking them away is reasonable in theory. However, even with 50/50 care (which I'm guessing he does not do), I am inclined to think that a full month away from you at this point wouldn't be ideal. Frankly, DH and I are both involved parents, happily married etc, so neither of us would consider a month away from the DC without an extraordinarily good reason.

I would tell him that no, as he's not currently doing 50/50, you can't agree to this and that even if he does start doing 50/50, how is he going to compensate you for him taking them for a MONTH?

Tell him he is welcome to take you to court. A friend had similar - her children were 18 months, 3 and 6 at the time. They'd been separated a year and he wasn't even turning up for his court ordered EOW and every Wednesday but now he wanted to take them across the world for 2 weeks? She was so stressed about it and he DID take her to court. The judge basially said that taking the kids away was a lovely idea - but until he could actually reliable turn up for the times he was supposed to see them, expecting anyone to be happy about a two week trip was crazy.

He's never taken them away for more than a weekend. They're now 13, 11 and 9.

Oh, and regarding the travelling abroad thing. If he's vindictive, this could be a problem for you. But you can apply for a court order or something that means you don't need his permission. Howevever, once child contact agreements are in place, he could push back and refuse to swap days/times. So I would get the process for taking the DC away written into whatever child arrangement order you create.

This.

In your situation I would speak to a lawyer.

Is it possible he is planning to take the kids and not return ( letting his mother care for them)?

50/50 will be because he does not want to pay maintenance. Not because of his devotion to his kids.

You need to get n emergency court hearing to get a "lives with" order (I think it's called). You then don't need his permission to take the DC abroad for a holiday.

I don’t think that would get resolved in an emergency hearing. The OP could get a PSO to prevent them going abroad. A lives with order would be part of CAO but that would address his rights to take them on holiday in his own right.

in reality a parent with strong roots in the UK, basically a home and a job, will always get agreement to take a child abroad during their allocated holiday time. That applies to countries not signed up to hague conventions. A court will only stop it if there is a reasonable concern of abduction. It can’t be presumed.

A month is ridiculous. He needs your permission anyway. Is the country within the Hague Convention? If not then I would see a lawyer.
Say 10 days max.

Either way, he cannot book anything until it is all sorted and been agreed upon in court.
They all say 50/50. Its utter bullshit.