Help for DSIL | Mumsnet

LondonGirl80 · 2024-05-04T21:34:53+00:00

Hi everyone, Can I ask for thoughts about what DSIL should do? She and DBIL (my partner's brother) have two boys 7 and 4. They separated a year ago. She still has the boys fulltime as he is staying with his parents - he has them there Weds and Sat nights. He now has a new gf and they have decided to rent a flat together. Until now he has continued to make his £1000 contribution to the joint account he shares with DSIL to pay the mortgage and bills, food etc for the house they own together. Now we all knew that this situation couldn't go on forever and would have to get sorted soon, but now that he will have rent costs of his own he has decided to reduce his payment to £500 a month effective immediately. DSIL is going out of her mind with worry - an overnight loss of £500 pm isn't manageable. She's going to call her mortgage company and go see a lawyer on Tuesday - but I wanted to ask the wise women of Mumsnet if you had any other ideas or tips for her. We will of course help (we are furious with DBIL) as will her parents - though between us we won't be able to make that sort of money up for long - just want to know if we are missing anything, TIA.

WhenWillTheSunShineIWonder · 04/05/2024 22:37

Has she seen a solicitor since they separated? She needs to find out what she’s entitled to, plus any benefits etc.

DoreenonTill8 · 04/05/2024 22:37

Why are you furious with him? Do you think he should never have been allowed to leave his parents? Surely he can have the kids 50/50 now. Does she work?

DaughterNo2 · 04/05/2024 22:41

Married? Has she claimed UC? Does she work?
no information in your post tbf OP

millymollymoomoo · 05/05/2024 10:28

Why are you furious?
rhet both need to move on and get the separation sorted in terms of financials. You admit it couldn’t continue and in fairness she’s had the benefit of a home and money at his expense the last year

what would the calc be per cms?

they need to sort out a proper financial separation asap

what would it be if she went via cms? Be careful that it could mean he’s just stop paying for contributions towards mortgage//bills etc

millymollymoomoo · 05/05/2024 10:32

Oh and regards the specific question she should

see what benefits if any she can claim
seek work/go full time if not already
srart divorce and financial settle name t to get this resolved properly
see a solicitor to understand the process
contact mortgage provider to see if can take holiday or something

Babyroobs · 05/05/2024 10:32

I don't understand why you are furious with him unless he is not paying the amount of CMS that he should be ?
He has no obligation to pay the mortgage. They need a discussion on what is going to happen longer term. Is the house going to be sold and equity divided ? Can she buy him out of his share of the property ?

TinyYellow · 05/05/2024 10:34

What does she do for work?

Is her youngest nearly at school so she can up her hours?

ultimately, if she can’t afford to buy her ex out of the house and pay the mortgage herself, she needs to move to something she can afford.

Tacocatgoatcheesepizza · 05/05/2024 10:35

Was he paying that in addition to cms?

surely they have had some kind of discussion about needing to sell the house? You say yourself it wasn’t sustainable so why are you mad at him? Your sil should have been planning for this. The only unreasonable part is him doing it with immediate effect - a month or 2 warning would have been kind seeing as he agreed to it in the first place.

Original poster

LondonGirl80 · 05/05/2024 10:36

Thanks so much everyone.

She works full-time as does he. They won't be eligible for any benefits. CMS calculation would be £500 per month for the boys. They are married.

We are furious as we think halving what he is paying to keep his sons in their home overnight is unacceptable- she won't be able to meet the mortgage on her own, jeopardising their home, and probably forcing a quick sale, which in the longer term is good for no-one (including him as they will split the proceeds of course). He should have gone for something with more notice, we think.

The subtext to all of this is that one day he just upped and left - and DSIL I think has always hoped he would come back, and they have talked about it three times. This makes it all real.

It's really helpful to hear the sound good sense of Mumsnet - it's all a big family drama right now, none of us in this generation have had a marriage break up so none of us are really clear how it works, and everyone is yelling at each other (apart from DSIL who is sobbing).

OP posts:

Shinyandnew1 · 05/05/2024 10:37

It was unreasonable to expect he would continue paying so much. I presume the house needs to be sold asap and the equity shared.

Runningbird43 · 05/05/2024 10:39

LondonGirl80 · 05/05/2024 10:36

Thanks so much everyone.

She works full-time as does he. They won't be eligible for any benefits. CMS calculation would be £500 per month for the boys. They are married.

We are furious as we think halving what he is paying to keep his sons in their home overnight is unacceptable- she won't be able to meet the mortgage on her own, jeopardising their home, and probably forcing a quick sale, which in the longer term is good for no-one (including him as they will split the proceeds of course). He should have gone for something with more notice, we think.

The subtext to all of this is that one day he just upped and left - and DSIL I think has always hoped he would come back, and they have talked about it three times. This makes it all real.

It's really helpful to hear the sound good sense of Mumsnet - it's all a big family drama right now, none of us in this generation have had a marriage break up so none of us are really clear how it works, and everyone is yelling at each other (apart from DSIL who is sobbing).

She’s had a year to sort her financial situation out.

he has been more than generous, did she expect him to live at his mum’s and pay her mortgage forever?

she needs to sort herself out.

he hasn’t done anything overnight. He isn’t forcing anything quickly. It’s been a year.

millymollymoomoo · 05/05/2024 11:01

Well look, cutting money overnight is challenging and it would have been better to give at least some notuce

but she is u reasonable to expect him to have to stay at parents, not have anywhere properly to have his children, pay so much for a property she is benefitting sole use of, etc and she has had a year to work out what to do

if she can’t afford to buy him out/take him off the mortgage and pay bills etc herself ( with cms ) then ultimately it’s highly likely the house will need to be sold

what she needs to do is gather details of marital assets, equity, pensions, incomes etc and get advice on what a settlement might look like and get the ball rolling. Unless he’s v high earner ( and the cms calc indicates not) it’s unlikely she’ll be able to stay in current home. She may ( we don’t know) be entitled to higher share of asset split if her income is lower but it all depends on their circumstances

Shinyandnew1 · 05/05/2024 11:17

we are furious with DBIL

I think that’s a bizarre response! They’ve split up and he’s been paying £1000 a month for a year! If she couldn’t pay the house on her own, it should have been put on the market a year ago.

Original poster

LondonGirl80 · 05/05/2024 11:37

Thank you so much everyone. It's all blown up overnight and all the family are yelling at each other. None of us have any experience of any of this, it's good to hear that the key thing is to get the long term sorted. And I really appreciate the perspective on who is being reasonable and unreasonable.

I am going to try calm things down and be practical. We adore our nephews and care about them so much - I think the best thing I can do is take them to the park later so that SIL can have a break and some headspace, and hopefully start to think about practicalities.

OP posts:

Runningbird43 · 05/05/2024 12:20

Bear in mind when taking sides like this you don’t know the full details.

dh went through similar- it appeared he “upped and left” but his ex had been having an affair. He did the decent thing if not fighting to stay the family home, but it left him living at his parents, going from putting his kids to bed every night and being a present parent, to seeing them twice a week in his parents flat.

once he pulled himself together he also stopped paying the mortgage, bills etc so he could save for a deposit on a flat where he could see his kids, get his life restarted etc.

his family all gave him a massive row about cutting the money, did all her childcare, enabled her to keep working part time, and completely supported her, with no consideration as to how he felt living apart from his kids with no home or support, or the fact he was nearly suicidal.

he no longer speaks to any of his family.

just be careful.

millymollymoomoo · 05/05/2024 12:37

You don’t need to take sides
you won’t know half of it

sunlovingcriminal · 05/05/2024 12:48

I realise on the face of it that your sister is worried, but as others say, she has had a year to short this out. Many separating couples have to sell their family house in order to allow both parents to move into their own places.

And then many couples end up doing 50:50 childcare which means there is no child maintenance owing. Spousal maintenance is now rarely a thing, other than when one party is a very high earner.

If this went to court, they would only want to see that both parties have enough money to house themselves- but this might not be buying. If both parties have to rent then so be it.

Financially he has been generous in paying her such a large monthly amount. They now need to both seek legal advice, and work out finances taking into account all assets, liabilities, pensions, earning capacity etc. which will then determine what split of marital home they both get. Your sister will then need to see if she can buy him out of his share. If not the house will have to be sold. Have they been to mediation? Court would usually want to see this has been done before they'll consider a divorce case.

Historically, mothers often got a mesher order allowing them to stay in the house until the kids were 18, at which point the house would be sold, and the father would get his share at that point. But the Courts rarely favour this approach anymore, instead preferring clean breaks where both parties are financially independent, other than any child maintenance that is required. There could maintenance is calculated using the CMS tool online.

Shinyandnew1 · 05/05/2024 13:11

DSIL is going out of her mind with worry - an overnight loss of £500 pm isn't manageable.

If he’s now getting a home of his own, it is likely he could move towards having the children 50/50, then he wouldn’t need to pay her anything at all. I think she needs to look at finding housing that she can afford on her own, whether that is renting or buying.

Eggmoobean · 05/05/2024 13:16

It’s the shock factor that is causing everyone to be unreasonable. He left - whatever the reason - it’s over and has been for a year. Dsil has spent the year hoping for reconciliation rather than planning her future, so now it’s officially over her ex is getting attacked. It’s unfair to expect the finances to go on like this forever, so she needs legal and housing advice to prepare her to move on.

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 05/05/2024 13:33

The most immediate issue is the mortgage. She, or maybe they both, need to speak to the mortgage holder first thing on Tuesday. If they've overpaid on the mortgage they might be able to reduce repayments, apply for a mortgage holiday. Depending on what loan type they have they might be able to move to interest only for 12 months. She needs to find out what if any options they have.

Bank first then applying for mediation, for which there will probably be a wait and then getting all the financials together and seeing a lawyer to get some idea of a realistic settlement.

I'd want to sort the financial agreement before selling otherwise the money left after repaying the mortgage will need to sit in a solicitors account until they agree. She also needs to know if he wants to change the child arrangement now he's getting his own place. That will effect a lot of things, including what child maintenance he needs to pay.

Everyone being furious isn't going to help in the long run. What she needs is calm practicability and making steps towards getting out of this mess. While the suddenness is shitty it may well be that she's stuck her head in the sand and ignored any warning rather than him not giving one. Even if he didn't it doesn't change what needs to happen now. She needs support to move forward before the financial situation implodes.

Shinyandnew1 · 05/05/2024 14:29

LondonGirl80 · 05/05/2024 11:37

Thank you so much everyone. It's all blown up overnight and all the family are yelling at each other. None of us have any experience of any of this, it's good to hear that the key thing is to get the long term sorted. And I really appreciate the perspective on who is being reasonable and unreasonable.

I am going to try calm things down and be practical. We adore our nephews and care about them so much - I think the best thing I can do is take them to the park later so that SIL can have a break and some headspace, and hopefully start to think about practicalities.

Why are other members of the family ‘yelling at each other’-what good as that going to achieve?! I would suggest they all calm down and help with practicalities if they want to be involved…like getting the house ready to go on the market instead.

Original poster

LondonGirl80 · 06/05/2024 10:45

Thanks so much again everyone. I'm going to try to be the voice of calm and try to get practical issues sorted.

People are yelling at each other cos that's how this family works - wish it were otherwise but it's not. They all blow up first and then calm down later.

OP posts:

Runningbird43 · 06/05/2024 10:53

LondonGirl80 · 06/05/2024 10:45

Thanks so much again everyone. I'm going to try to be the voice of calm and try to get practical issues sorted.

People are yelling at each other cos that's how this family works - wish it were otherwise but it's not. They all blow up first and then calm down later.

Honestly I’d keep out. She’s a grown adult woman who should be capable of sorting her own finances. Sounds like she’s replacing her finacial reliance on her ex to you and your family.

Don’t start bailing her out now, she needs to sort it herself.

advice she sees solicitor and contact bank to arrange interest only/payment holiday. Then leave her to it.