50:50 split

[askingformydp]

So, interesting situation- asking on behalf of my dp. I'm a regular user but have name changed. Some details varied in case exW is on here.

My dp separated/divorced exW about 5 years ago.

ExW stayed in family home.

2 x kids- 11 & 13 (both at secondary)

Dp moved a bit. First into a flat, then into a big enough house. 15 mins from school. Easily accessible by public transport.

Originally had kids eow and once during the week. Not what he wanted, but he was pretty naive about how divorce works nowadays, had no legal advice, and conceded as exW pretty resolute.

He has subsequently requested 50:50 via mediation, initially this was a flat out no, then allowed 1 extra weeknight per week. However, on his eow he has to drop kids back at mums after dinner on a Sunday. DP would like to have the Sunday night, which would result in 50:50. Also would cut out travel time at weekends, and mean that dp gets parity of access and a "full weekend" with the kids.

Argument from exW is that the kids are too tired to accommodate this.

So as to not drip feed, kids have own bedrooms, regular reasonable bedtimes, do homework etc whilst with dp. Both parents work ft. DP wfh, and either collects dc or they get the train when they go to his. DP never missed an evening, parents evening, performances, matches. To all intents and purposes a good parent.

Given that mediation has now failed, how would this fare in court, is it worth it? Is there another route?

And before anyone pounces on me as it's my DP, I'm not involved in their affairs other than listening to my dp, and I wasn't a "OW".

The kids are now old enough to have a say so they would probably get a say in court on what they want

What do kids want? They will be listened to at their age. Maybe worth having them attend mediation to have their say?

I agree. DP & ExW have tried to shield them from this disagreement which is admirable, but perhaps unproductive. I will suggest it to him again.

Please consider first and foremost whether the kids will want a parental war with them in the middle. Their views will be sought so they will be conscious they have to say something that will upset on parent or the other. They might end up asking for something to keep the peace or make the least amount of upset.

There is a potential hornets nest for them and for your DP.

@LemonTT can absolutely see this point too, which is why dp has held off asking them.

However, he does feel aggrieved at not having parity of time despite being a hands on parent, them enjoying being with him, and them being close enough to school. Sunday nights have become a drag for everyone as activities have to be curtailed (ie day trips considered closely to ensure ample leeway for running late), dinner rushed, uniform gathered up etc. I know it doesn't seem like the biggest deal in the world but certainly adds to the Sunday night blues for everyone.

@LemonTT is there anything else you could suggest? DP has tried mediation but is being met with a blanket no, despite presenting reasonable motivations.

Going to court seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut for one extra night a fortnight!

Going to court seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut for one extra night a fortnight!

So want are you wanting to force the issue really then I don't get it? To reduce CMS or to get one over on the ex wife? If it would cause more heart ache to the children to take their mother through the courts then this is only something that would benefit you/your partner rather than the children?
If you asked them and they said they were happy with the status quo what then?

Is payment of child maintenance an issue? At 50:50 she may no longer receive anything which could mean having to downsize her home - lots of assumptions here but it could be playing a part in the mum's thinking. If she has had to bear the costs of running a house for the kids while he chose a flat (and couldn't presumably have them live with him 50:50) then to disrupt her living arrangements to accommodate the fact he's now in a position to do more of the caring might feel a bit unfair to her? What the children want though is paramount.

I think yes, probably need to ask the children, but I think he has a valid point: it's not very nice taking them back on a Sunday night and would feel disruptive to me too. Obviously yes, it will mean no child support. But them's the breaks.

Re contact it will completely come down to what the children want at these ages. They are likely To want less rigid structures now and in the coming years

if they didn’t sort finances and get a consent order your do should press for that

@theclimb you've misinterpreted what I've said. It isn't that the Sunday night is not important to my dp- as I've set out above it is disruptive to his weekends. However, it feels that going to court for one extra night a fortnight feels like a heavy duty tool. Hence me asking what other options would be available given that mediation has failed to meet a resolution agreeable to them both.

They haven't consulted the dc, but if they were not in favour I doubt he would proceed with the change. It needs to be handled delicately so they don't feel they are caught in an argument-(as a previous poster has highlighted) hence why they've avoided discussing it with them.

Court would say it’s totally up to the kids because of their ages.

It may well be that finances are the issue, but exW hasn't been prepared to discuss this. DP has tried, but this has been shut down- and if it were the issue he would be prepared to negotiate.

He did have dc in the flat previously, but it was small and they had to share a bedroom. Hence why he didn't try and change the status quo at that point (and he was done with arguing at that stage too understandably after separation). The flat was also what he could afford at that point.

Did they have a financial settlement and consent order ? If not he should sort that

Unless the contact is court ordered, she has no more right to decide it than him.

If the children prefer to stay and she won’t negotiate, he can just keep them that night and reduce the maintenance (or not, depending on what he feels os fair),

She can then take him to court.

Either parents agree or a court decides.

Refusing to hand them over isn’t really in the children’s interests. There is no place for petty point scoring or power playing with them in the middle.

My honest view having had step kids (who went home on a Sunday night) is that this is not worth the boat rock. Given that your DP hasn’t really been able to articulate why this is so important beyond him missing out and the unfairness to his day and he doesn’t know why his ex won’t agree I would say neither have really tried to settle this. Can’t they just have an honest conversation because this does sound money driven.

Many years ago my husband questioned whether the should pay child support to his ex when the kids went to university. He wanted to pay it directly to them. I said he should because it was not worth the potential fallout after 15 old years of peaceful co parenting. It was worth it when we all could go to the graduation ceremonies and take photos together parents and step parents. With happy kids in the middle.

I honestly despair of the insane divorce drama people recommend on here which really fucks with children’s lives.

@LemonTT he won't be withholding the children, that approach wouldn't be his style and would just put the kids in an awkward position.

He'd like an honest conversation hence going through several mediation sessions... understandably he's frustrated as, like you say, this appears to be financially motivated and it would be easier to tackle if this was put on the table.

I am lucky in that me and my ExH are able to communicate a lot easier, but given the number of threads on this board it's evident that communication isn't easy for everyone. And if everyone saw eye to eye mediators would have very little work!

@LemonTT ,

Of course it is not in the children’s interest to go to war.

But, equally, you can’t just accept one parent can dictate terms to another.

If the children are happy with the status quo, then probably best to leave it. OTOH, I think it is important to let them know they are always welcome and their views count.

If I was in this situation Id find a mediator that has a family/children's therapist as a part of their service. Maybe your current one has this option. The therapist talks to the children to work out what they want, to give them a voice in the process. If that's not a thing where you are I'd ring around some therapists that have experience working with tweens & teens and find someone with a lot of experience with family seperation who knows how to approach this and find out what the kids want. You need someone neutral to talk to them so there's no pressure to try and please whichever parent is asking at the time.

If they dont want more nights you could try a different combinations of nights. Substitute a night, so full weekend but one less weeknight. There may be an issue with the number of nights in a row in which case would Saturday morning to Monday morning work better.

My eldest isn't actually willing to stay more than 2 nights regularly with her Dad, except very occasionally and 3 is her maximum unless there are other relatives present. Ive given up trying to get him to listen and just say no now. My XH is abusive though. Its possible their Mum is representing the children's voice in this, of course it's also possible she's not.