Contact arrangements when self employed

[bananaclouds]

Hello all.

I've been split from my husband for almost a year, at the start it was amicable and easy and we had set weekends for contact but the rest remained fairly flexible and he saw the children a lot. He has since found someone else and it's cut right down to weekend contact. Previously if I wanted him to have them an extra night on my weekend he would, if I had an appointment or needed to do something he'd have them, the flexibility worked for both of us.

However, now it only works in his favour. He'll never have them outside of his weekend unless he wants to and it's always last minute. It makes it very difficult for me to make plans with my free time and often end up doing nothing or missing opportunities I could have taken. If I asked him to have them an extra night the answer is always no, he's busy.

I want a proper agreement where we both know in advance when we have them and when we don't. He wants them more often but won't commit in advance.

He says because he's self employed he cannot plan ahead that far. For context he works for a company with regular hours, pay, routines. The issue he has is that he doesn't like to take time off as he isn't paid. He's a high earner so it isn't due to not being able to afford time off, it's that he can't budget and manage his money.

I've asked for an agreement in advance of bank holiday split, I've asked for 2 weeks of the school holidays, to be flexible and split over 2 1 week periods over the year. I'm a teacher so I have the holidays off, he says it's unreasonable for me to expect him to take time off to look after the children when I'm off, but I'd like to go on holiday without them, as he undoubtedly will. He sometimes works bank holidays so won't agree to have them, he doesn't need to work bank holidays, he asks for the extra time. If he can't work or doesn't have anything else to do, he asks to have the kids.

So my question is, would a court agree with him that he cannot agree contact in advance or would he be expected to manage that around his work. Surly knowing in advance makes it easier to budget and plan for.

They'll expect him to take annual leave like any other parent. And if he's not paid for that because he's self employed then so be it.

Thank you, do you think it's unfair for me to expect him to have them during the holidays when I'm off? He's been so awful that I really doubt myself and I don't know what's reasonable and what's not anymore.

The problem is a court are never going to force contact that he doesn’t agree to/doesn’t want. So if it gets to court and he says he can only commit to every other weekend for example no judge is ever going to say “well actually no you have to do 2 weeks in summer, 2 bank hols etc”. The system is not set up to force a father to be a father (unfortunately, and as frustrating as that is for mothers)! They can just walk away and commit to bare minimum.

So be prepared for the fact that if it gets to court the best case scenario really is he agrees to a minimal amount of contact with the caveat that he can ask for more/accept you offering more as & when- which is where you are now really.

The bottom line is that no court is going to say he HAS to have more contact.

A court won’t force him to stick to an arrangement- will only force you to make them available
therein lies your problem I’m afraid

If you were together would you holiday without your children?

Other than that I think you are being fair

If he can’t look after the children in the holidays, can he contribute to the cost of childcare if you can’t look after them for whatever reason?

Could you perhaps do a long weekend, Thursday to Tuesday or something if you could get him to agree to that?

I don’t think it’s fair he won’t help with childcare in the holidays and it’s all on you.

If you told him you have a second job that you are working in school holidays to help your finances would that mean he would have them more reliably so you could work?

If so, then get a second ‘job’

I know no one can force him to have them more, it's a line he uses himself. It angers me because I'm forced to have them more.. for clarity, I don't see it as being forced to have my children, I want my children. but with the logic he applies.. he can't be forced, but I can. Because if he won't, I have to. And as a dad he just gets to opt out.

I just cannot imagine, as a mother, ever wanting so little contact with my children. If he took them, I would literally fight to the death to have them as much as physically possible. I would never consider having them as being forced to have them.

I think I'm finding it hard because I just don't understand it. And I'm sad for the kids as they deserve to be a priority to him.

What you want isn't unfair, but its something the court can't do anything about. No one including judges can make him have them if he chooses not too. The court could say things have to be agreed x time in advance, but they can't make him have them even for times he's agreed to.

I really feel for you @bananaclouds it’s so so unfair because you’re exactly right, the system is set up in such a way that dad’s can’t be made to do more (or even pay more beyond CMS) and yet the consequence of that is that mum’s ARE then forced to do more and pay more.

I do wonder what would happen at the point a mum turned round in court and decided actually they would refuse full time as well! It’s completely unfair but sadly it is just the way it is.

Exactly, I cannot refuse.. I don't have a choice.
I guess we'll never know what happens because it won't happen will it, very few mums will ever turn round and say, I don't want my children full time where as many dads do.

I know there are good dads, I'm not bashing all dads I know there's good ones out there. But in my experiences, personally and with close friends and family there seem to be lots of dads who think when they're divorce/separate they also shake the responsibility of their kids, but I imagine that they're were pretty useless before the divorce, it was my reason for leaving so I guess I am stupid for thinking it could be different now.

I see the opposite in my circle of friends

in your situation no one says it’s fair, unfortunately the courts won’t do anything to force him, more sad for the children really

if you want a holiday, do you have parents or siblings they can stay with? Start planning things and then if he says oh I want them then, it’s too bad

Does he hide his income so you can't claim through CMS?

If he won't commit to 2 weeks over the year and only has EOW for 2 nights then your maintenance should be going up.

Courts will award fixed access whether he collects them is another matter.

Do your DC still see his parents? Worth asking them to have the DC for a week in the schools holidays seeing as though their son refuses to?

It will depend on your judge. I was at one point expected to work around ex shifts even tho this meant I couldn't easily work.

Then the court order is against the parent who the kids live with. You have to make the child available for contact according to the court order pattern. Then if ex decides he won't be seeing then and cancels/doesn't turn up tough shit you can't enforce it.

Oh and child maintenance service go off what a court order says for the amount of overnights a year so getting an order he then doesn't follow means you get less maintenance for the child than you are entitled to.

The system is broken. It serves men not the children or their mothers