What if we can’t agree (children)?

[WildflowerB]

Just that really. STBXH is trying to push me into agreeing to arrangements I think would be horrible for children and me (cohabiting, bird nesting etc) We are seeing a mediator but getting nowhere. Lawyers already involved. But just can’t see how we will ever come to a compromise. What happens then?

Ultimately you’d end up on court for a child arrangements order and I judge would decide

thars not be necessarily a good thing

on what things are you disconnected ?

You have to go to court. Money and kids are separate but custody arrangements affect expenses so the more your partner does, less they pay. Young kids means you get house etc.

Erm, cohabitating is a no. No judge is going to “force” you to live with your ex to have access to your children. And if your ex is forcing it, it does make him look abusive.

As for bird nesting, do you HAVE enough money for three separate residences and do you currently live in a house where the children could have their rooms, you can have a room and ex can have a room? Because you can’t be expected to just have no space of your own. It can’t be expected that you and ex will share the same room in the family house on each other’s weeks nor can it be expected you’ll share a single flat or something when it’s the alternative week, and this is what should be pointed out in mediation, and hopefully it’ll shut this down before you have to pay court costs - that no judge will force you to share ALL your personal space with your ex in involuntary bird nesting without three residences and definitely not involuntary cohabitating. Now, if you CAN afford three residences and you DO have so many bedrooms at the family that everyone can have their own… I guess a judge might approve bird nesting, if you don’t have any other objections (I’m assuming you do though)?

Try to get these two ideas tossed in mediation by making it clear a judge won’t approve if you’re unwilling. BUT if there is a reason you want your ex to have less than 50% custody or your children to feel the home is a safe space without him, then you might have to fight that in court.

I think the idea is to share a nearby second place that we’d take turns in, not three homes.

We’re disconnected because I don’t want to share a home in any way & he does.

So in other words, he wants you to continue keeping his living space nice and tidy. Only now two spaces rather than one.

Yes. That’s just one reason I don’t want to do it. Also there’s been control, emotional abuse etc. Just feels like it’ll be more of the same. And confusing for DS. But he wants me to provide evidence and data to back up my alternative ideas (separate homes).

Judge decides if couple can't agree.

If mediation isn't working - stop going. Press on to court now.

Evidence and data?

Seperate homes are extremely common.

He's just using this as a way to continue the abuse. I'd be just saying no and that it's not in the interests of your child.

No judge is going to force you into a nesting situation. Nesting only works of both parties are amicable and there's no history of abuse. It also only works if both parties actually want to do it.

I’d try and go straight to court for ordered times for contact. I wouldn’t be even entertaining cohabiting or bird nesting with someone whose been controlling and abusive, he also can jog on with asking for evidence and data - tell him to do the research himself. It sounds like he’s still trying to control you tbh.

Thank you. This is all what I suspect. Does it matter that I feel I can’t prove emotional abuse or control? He obviously denies it and blames everything on me.

It doesn't matter if he's the loveliest guy in the world and you're best friends, if you don't want to live in the same house as him a court is not going to make you.

That’s reassuring. Although it sounds like court is the only option then.

OP, important thing to remember is, you do not owe your stbxh anything. You do not have to explain yourself to him. I know from personal experience that those of us who were subjected to emotional abuse and control, this comes as a very difficult thing to accept. I still feel (after being separated for three years and divorced for one whole year) that I have to explain my ex everything, that I have to excuse myself, etc. You just tell him what you want like he told you what he wants and if neither one is willing to budge, you will have to go to court to settle it. I am sorry, I know that you would much rather settle this with him here and now, but remember that he may be doing it purposely to upset you, to tip you out of balance, to hurt you, just like he has been doing it up until now. Do not let him. Good luck and all the best!

Ime of exh's insisting they get their own way need a judge to bring them down a peg or 2...

This is all really helpful. Thank you.
My other worries are that it will get so much more combative and acrimonious if we go to court. And also what if the judge believes him & makes me the bad difficult person here & then I could be worse off.

Judges deal with this situation all the time. They'll hopefully be able to see through all the bullshit.

If he starts being difficult, remain calm and civil in your responses to him. Try to communicate via text or email so you have it in writing and can show the court exactly who is the difficult one. Look up the grey rock method. This is where you respond only when necessary and with minimal information as to not be dragged into any arguments or drama.

If he's used to being controlling he probably won't react well to being told he's not getting what he wants and definitely won't like being put in his place by a judge. But I think going to court is what is needed in the long run. If you're co-parenting with a controlling person you absolutely need a clear schedule otherwise you open yourself up to being dictated to and them just doing what suits them.

Thank you. I have had mixed success with grey rock because I don’t know how it is supposed to work when we are still in the same house and not yet agreed on what next and our child doesn’t know yet so there are times I have to be friendly. But will try it for when conflict is starting. And I guess I hope I get a good judge.

I think grey rock is less about whether you’re friendly and more about only offering up what is necessary, not being drawn into any kind of battle, not retaliating, just let his words wash over you rather than take them on board. Don’t give away anything which he can twist, alter, mince. Just don’t be drawn into anything.
You don’t need to explain or give data/evidence as to why cohabiting/bird nesting won’t work for you - you just don’t feel it would be good for your mental health, you want to live separately, have your own space, be in control of your own life and be able to move on. It isn’t in a child’s best interests for children to live in an unhappy environment. I’d focus on how both parties can house themselves and the children in two smaller properties, etc. How you can increase income if necessary, can you claim anything to help that - if you can’t buy, can you rent? Can one take over the current house, buy the other out and the other house themselves adequately? I’d focus on the feasible alternatives to his ideas which will resolve the living arrangements. I think that unless both parents feel that bird nesting etc will work (it obviously works well for some) and want to pursue that, a judge is going to prefer an option where there are two separate households.

Oh thanks that is helpful about grey rock. I think I have been doing it wrong but this helps.
We can afford to be in two places but he won’t consider it so I guess that is what happens if or when we go to court.

This sounds absolutely horrendous. I’m glad you’re not considering it OP. Sorry you’re going through such a tough time.

Bird nesting is bonkers if the split is not amicable, you can't move on, they can continue to be controlling and there's still so much negotiation and agreement needed to make it work.

Thanks for the support. I agree it can only work if it's amicable, which is why I am saying no.