Pensions

[Pinkcarlisle]

Trying to agree financial split. I thought we were going for 50/50 on all assets (earn similar amounts, married 20yrs, 2 kids, enough equity in family home for us to sell and buy 2 similar houses with similar mortgages). But Stbexh now wants to exclude two pensions he started before we married, currently worth 100k. My pension is only worth half of his because of working part-time while kids were small. We are late 40s. Is it worth arguing for them to be included, so we exit the marriage with equal pensions? Thanks for any advice.

Absolutely

Yes, or you take more equity and he keeps his pensions. But, yes, the overall assets should be split equally otherwise you are at a disadvantage due to having looked after the children which was probably a decision agreed jointly at the time. Don’t leave out the pensions when you’re coming to an agreement because they’ll be included in your financial consent order.

In Scotland I believe he can exclude the part of the pension that relates to pre-marriage / co- habitation.

Pensions should be included in divorce but a cash value will be less than a shared value as tax free cash has more benefits. Assuming you split it 50/50 then ask for £50k as a pension share order or make an offer for a cash buyout.
there is no set formula for this as there are many variables, (age to retirement, tax status etc). Research suggests 50-60% is the norm. I would suggest a figure of around £30k is reasonable.

Is he wanting to exclude the value he accrued before marriage or also the 20 years you were married? If you are in your 40s been together since your 20s can't see how he would have amassed a £100k pension in the few years before marriage?

Is it worth arguing for them to be included, so we exit the marriage with equal pensions?

Yes, it absolutely is.

Accrued during the marriage.

I think they should be included as they accrued during the marriage. Financial decisions affecting both of you were taken in the context that some family money was being directed into those pensions (and that presumably you would both be receiving the benefit of that money if you were together at retirement).

Circumstances have changed and so that needs to be reassessed, but you shouldn’t just give up the benefit of that money.

Accrued during marriage - no way he can exclude that.

I walked away with all my pensions accrued before and during a marriage/relationship of similar duration

How long did you work part time for?

You should definitely argue for it to be included. You deserve to have a fair split between you and your ex. See if this might be helpful for you to know what your options are with the pensions/how you can split them - https://iamlip.com/dividing-pensions-and-pension-sharing-orders/

When you say his pension is worth £100k do you mean the CETV? Is that the cash equivalent transfer value? If so what does that mean? I've just got my pension cetv as £120k but I'm afraid I don't understand what it means practically speaking.

@budgetbunny can I please ask how you did that?

Er, yes?!?

Is he offering something instead of that? The house??

I agree the part built before marriage should be excluded. Otherwise he needs to accept pensions are an asset of the marriage and get the latest CETV for them.
It is good to agree terms together but in this care I think it would be worthwhile paying for legal advice.

Definitely get the pensions made equal, or you have a higher percentage of other assets instead if he keeps the larger pension pot. It seems very common that the person with the larger pension doesn’t want to share it. General advice is you exit a long marriage with equal pension pots.

Can I jump in and ask a question? Let's say we separated in Jan 2022 and got CETVs done that valued his pension at £360k at that point. I'm to get 50% having minimal pension myself. What happens with the growth since Jan 2022?

Do I get £180k into my own pot or the £180k + the growth. Divorce could still be months away?

Depends on your moral standpoint. Legally you could get half at time of divorce. Morally why would you take half of what he/she as built up since you split?

that said if you are talking about growth rather than contributions then yes half at time of divorce less contributions since split would seem fair to me.

Thank you. Yes. These are closed funds from old employment so it's simply the growth I'm talking about.

The figures involved could be significant. And every penny counts going forward.

My understanding is that any contributions after the date of the consent order are not included in the sharing. To avoid confusion/errors, I stopped contributions for a few months, then started a second pension.

The percentage split will be the value on the day the share happens - so growth or loss gets factored in.

@alonglongshot I don’t know the legal answer, but if you compare this to selling the matrimonial home then it would be 50% of the amount at the time of the consent order, not separation because any significant growth will change the split being equitable. If there have been no additional contributions, this would seem even more the case. Why would only one person benefit from the increase in the investment that was made when the two peoples finances were thought to be joint?

Yes