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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Is this proposal reasonable?

12 replies

whatfnow · 23/02/2024 09:55

Hi everyone, after many years of bickering and subsequent loss of affection, a minor argument escalated into a full on fight about everything we do and everything we are. Suddenly "things have changed", and my husband started imposing rules about our personal space and day-to-day organisation, which I felt were violating my independence and demonstrating complete lack of trust and respect. I don't want to live like that, our marriage has not been what I want for many years now, and I have gotten tired of constantly waIking on eggshells and pushing myself to the limits with life, work, kids to the point of making myself (mainly physically) sick. He has been completely unreasonable and it's so difficult to have an adult conversation with him that does include insults and harsh words. My patience has run out, and with the little respect I have left for myself and our children, I suggested that we split our households if he wants to proceed imposing unreasonable rules about our life.

Unsurprisingly, and in a very formal way, he has requested that we initiate divorce proceedings. Now the problem lies on his opinion on what a divorce entails... Divorce for me means we live together for a few months until we decide who gets to stay in the family home and until there is a suitable accommodation found for the other party. In the meantime, we do not announce anything to family or the children, and keep discussing on how to split assets and our future living/child arrangements. If possible, things can be amicable, but the end goal is to be two separate households that our children can live in taking turns. From that point where we actually don't live together anymore, our only communication will be about the children and we will be working towards a clean break and formal marriage resolution.

Now, his suggestion is to keep living together only as parents (ie. separate beds), for an undetermined amount of time, which includes after the divorce is finalised. He wants to keep what's his and I keep what's mine, and we keep owning together what we jointly own. I find this suggestion absurd and so tough to implement considering we are two adults who don't want to be married to each other, and who seem unable to find ways of effective communication. Not to mention other practicalities such as how to split expenses, agree on house maintenance and chores, finding new partners, etc.

Apart from the very obvious issue of getting officially divorced without a clean break (which is something I will certainly pursue as I am aware of the complications), what bothers me is that this suggestion is not coming from "it will be better for the kids to have one home, with two available parents who can co-parent so that nothing changes in the kids lives apart from their parents not being married", it's instead coming from "I won't be able to afford to rent or buy something in the local area, and I will also have to pay child maintenance"... It is kinda degrading, don't you think?

To set the record straight, we both have enough assets/savings and high earner salaries that we can use to support our current standard of living even if we live separately. What he means, is that we won't be saving much money, and that it will be wasteful to have to spend money we are now able to save for the future.

I am at a place where I don't know what to say, and how to break it down to him that a request for divorce entails is a very serious process, with an outcome that means that we will both be financially worse off, and he will have lost the only person who currently cares about him and is his best (and only) friend. I am so upset that he thinks I will still be there for him, in the same way I have been ever since we got together. Listening to how his day was, making small talk, washing his clothes, almost certainly doing 80% of the childcare, facilitating his personal life, all while there will be rules I am not keen on following in my own home (which was what triggered the separate households and the subsequent request for divorce in the first place 😅). Or even worse, he might be expecting that we use separate rooms and don't even look or talk to each other, which will make it such a great example for the children...

Does anyone think this is reasonable? I am happy to give it a shot, but in my opinion we should start living separately as soon as possible, and learn how to live independently to see how it feels after 10 years of living together. It will be a massive shock, but that's life. Thanks!

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 23/02/2024 10:04

Where's Theresa May when you need her? Brexit means brexit, pal.

whatfnow · 23/02/2024 10:11

MorrisZapp · 23/02/2024 10:04

Where's Theresa May when you need her? Brexit means brexit, pal.

Initially I thought you replied to the wrong post, but then I got it 😂Hilarious!

OP posts:
peanutbutterkid · 23/02/2024 10:51

Just get momentum behind each step that you need, OP, like submitting the first form for no-fault divorce. You want to get his agreement to file that now, and then fill it out & pay for it send it in. If he's seeming super stubborn then don't keep arguing, just say noncommital things & occasionally "That won't work" but not in a chronic way. First task is to get him to agree to the initial steps that take ages, odds are very high he will come round to your vision of his own accord.

I also divorced a cheap bastard but in my case he super resented my household habits so he was happy that I moved out.

One part I don't get, when U wrote:

Divorce for me means we live together for a few months until we decide who gets to stay in the family home

Why? Why wouldn't you both move out & rent if you each need a large enough place for selves+kids, assuming neither can afford to buy (in near future)? if you both insist on staying property owners then that's your stalemate. If neither finances stretch to buying (initially) then you both rent in meantime. Divorce does mean you both end up poorer.

From that point where we actually don't live together anymore, our only communication will be about the children

Except it wouldn't be, there will still be a lot of financial details & the first scenario implied that one party might buy the other out or even send maintenance. I laud you for keeping it civl though, that will keep you sane, too.

whatfnow · 23/02/2024 12:00

Hi @peanutbutterkid thanks for your response! The reason for thinking about keeping the house is firstly so that the kids don't have to have another change in their lives, because it's in great location for the kids school and amenities (not many decent properties are available in our village and I am adamant on the kids not having to change schools), it's good value for money (we've done lots of work on it and it does not need anything else done to it - stick with the devil you know), and lastly because it will be easier, faster and cheaper if only one of us needs to move out. We can both afford to buy the other one out and pay the mortgage/bills, so this is the route I will propose. The other party will be mortgage free and can afford to raise 400k to buy another property, which will be smaller than what we have but more than enough for 1 adult and 2 kids. That way we won't have to pay stamp duty twice. In my opinion it would be preferable to have one of us move out and rent while everything is being finalised; the person who stays in the family home will be paying all of bills and mortgage, and the person who moves out will be responsible for the rental. A property can be purchased after everything is sorted and the financial order is signed.

I think the above scenario is more than fair financially. I would like to stay in the family home and I am not expecting him to pay anything towards my living, to be honest, I wouldn't care if he didn't pay child maintenance either. However, that does not mean that I am stupid and I will not see what I am entitled to before agreeing to the financial order.

With regards to the last comment, you are right. There will be lots of admin to be done, but I am referring to the fact that we won't be buddies, and we won't be each other's emotional crutch! We will be 2 individuals who only communicate when necessary, instead of sending GIFs and jokes to each other, or complain about our jobs or family. This is what I don't think he gets... That he will have no one to talk to "socially", and believe me, he won't have anyone to talk to! Which I think is one of the main reasons why he proposed to live together. I am trying to keep things very civilised and keep my emotions out of the conversation as much as possible since he is the sort of person who considers people with emotions "drama queens". In fact, the lack of empathy towards me is what is driving me out of our marriage. So, yes I am very angry that he considers me a "bad" wife and doesn't love me enough to be married to me, but he is happy to keep living with me?! I am trying very hard to keep my head level and not scream to him how much of a horrible person he's been to me over many years, especially as he has NEVER apologised or admitted wrong on anything that he has done or said. He is a classic example of "I am perfect and everything is wrong with you". I am between 2 worlds thinking that it's natural to want to hold onto something when you are being rejected, and trying to remind myself why it's best to proceed with a separation....

OP posts:
OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 23/02/2024 12:06

Don't overthink it, it's his loss.

Just apply for the paperwork, take it upon yourself to initiate the divorce, I believe it's £590 for the form to start a divorce - I found that out from a thread yesterday.

Get a valuation on the house, contact a solicitor and set things in motion. Know what you are both entitled to.

millymollymoomoo · 23/02/2024 12:27

the only thing I’d say is, you seem to have worked it out for you and what you will do and what you expect him to do

it doesn’t work like that

you’ll either need to agree or get court to

presjm you want him to move out, to a smaller property and see his children less…. Perhaps he’ll think they should be you

Pelicanlover · 23/02/2024 12:32

I’d suggest mediation. Your proposal sounds reasonable and good for the kids.

he can’t make you stay in a relationship because he wants to save money.

a neutral third party will be able to point this out to him, and suggest it’s this or court ( which he really doesn’t want)

whatfnow · 23/02/2024 13:00

millymollymoomoo · 23/02/2024 12:27

the only thing I’d say is, you seem to have worked it out for you and what you will do and what you expect him to do

it doesn’t work like that

you’ll either need to agree or get court to

presjm you want him to move out, to a smaller property and see his children less…. Perhaps he’ll think they should be you

It's my suggested approach and what I wish. He does not have to agree, and I never said he will see the kids less than me. I am okay with being the one who moves out, and I can sort a home for me and the kids even though it might be tricky to find one with these requirements (and I don't mind it being smaller, less bills and expenses tbh).

Also, although in theory he would mind not seeing the children as much as I do, he is a loner and appreciates his peace and quiet; he's shutting himself in the office for hours and might come out only when it's time for the kids to go to bed. I have been the primary caregiver ever since they were born while working full time on a very demanding job - I would literally have to train him on what needs to be done, how and when 🙄Funny enough, these fathers only realise how much they want to see their kids when they can't see them everyday.

I will write a couple of options down and we can discuss why what he proposed won't work for me, and what option is the most reasonable one. I just want to be able to breathe in my own, separate space as soon as reasonably possible. For the time being I am trying to work on my poker face and keep my emotions balanced.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and support! It sucks to be going through such a rapid change in life circumstances, and not being able to speak to friends a family about it is quite tough...

OP posts:
whatfnow · 23/02/2024 13:12

Thinking about all the different scenarios reminds me of my late stepdad. He married my mom after she and my dad separated, they weren't married and she was basically taken to the cleaners. I have only seen my dad 3 times since I was 9 years old. I recall my stepdad telling me that a woman always needs to be independent, not only financially, but in her everyday life. He taught me how to DIY, how to budget, how to be the woman I am today. I am so lucky to have had him in my life, and I am hoping than one day I might be able to find someone like him, who always appreciated the hard work my mom did, praised her and helped her, made her feel special. I am not quite sure how I ended up with such a husband after having a great example of how a man should treat his wife... Love is blind, ain't it?

OP posts:
millymollymoomoo · 23/02/2024 13:28

I don’t think you’re unreasonable in wanting complete separation and not to continue how he wants

I was just saying, that he might not agree with you and you can’t dictate what’s going to happen. Eg he might refuse to move ( in which case you’d have to). He might refuse to allow you to buy him out, in which case court might be needed to achieve this etc

you can control what you do. You can’t control what he does. And if you can’t agree on split/assets/where children will be then a court will decide.

how old are the children ?

Quartz2208 · 23/02/2024 13:34

I think I all honesty the only way forward is to sell the family home, I know it isn’t ideal but you need a clean break and split the assets 50/50

whatfnow · 25/02/2024 16:05

@millymollymoomoo , the children are 4 and 9 years old. We can take it one step at a time and go through all options before reaching an agreement. If he does not agree with me buying him out I will have to find somewhere to rent. I can't live like that for much longer; it's already been 1.5 months and I am reaching my limits!

@Quartz2208 , just curious, why is selling the house the only way forward? Either of us can afford to buy the other one out, and the other can raise a mortgage big enough to house the children. Selling incurs costs (solicitors, estate agents, moving out), and buying 2 properties incurs double the costs! Not to mention that there are not a lot of properties available where we live, so we would both have to find a house each... If he digs his heels to the ground, fine, we'll have to sell and consider the equity part of the pot to split between us.

I truly think that at this point he has just realised how much of an upheaval a divorce is, and how much worse off he will be afterwards. He is going through some sort of middle life crisis where "sex is not enough" and he realises that he probably won't be able to party as much as he would want to since he will have less money and the kids 50% of the time by himself 😏

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