Court CAFCASS challenge

[Mnbvcxzlkhgfds]

I wanted to do mediation with ex months before he did C100. He filed and said no to MIAM. CAFCASS recommended mediation but judge didn’t act on that. So it went to court. Court order was issued with no mediation and no way of me and ex effectively communicating. I find him dismissive of me and doesn’t listen or is patronising. Months later the children who didn’t want him to come to live in the UK and be more involved in their lives in the first place are struggling emotionally after being placed straight into the new routine without building it up slowly. They’ve all accessed extra pastoral support at school and one has sleep troubles that I’ve been to the GP about. I don’t get any support or understanding from my ex and communication is so difficult. I’m baring the brunt of the behaviour from the change. I’ve suggested mediation to ex again. Can you complain to the court or CAFCASS when the children are being negatively impacted by the new court order and ask them why
the court didn’t do mediation and why they didn’t listen to CAFCASS and not give children any voice in this?

What was the reason the court gave for no mediation ordered, OP?
And what's the "new routine"?

What's the contact level in the court order?

Contact EOW and holidays.

No reason offered.

@Mnbvcxzlkhgfds How old are they?
Cafcass said my kids could "choose" at around 12.
Are they happy to go when it's his weekends?

No. I have one teenager and another at high school one KS2 age. The youngest accepts it most. With the others it can be 40 minutes of stress getting them out of the door because they won’t allow him to pick him up from school as it’s embarrassing. the eldest phones me up really angry each day of dad’s weekend to come home. They all feel anxious and out of control about spending holidays with Dad and not being able to see friends. The come home feeling they’ve wasted a weekend or holiday having seen him. All I can say is the judge said you have to and it’s good for you to spend time with dad as I’m supposed to - I don’t want any more hassle from their dad or courts who may not listen to me again. It hurts that the children weren’t listened to

Can you complain?

@Mnbvcxzlkhgfds Well Cafcass told me that at 12 and 14 my sons could make up their own minds and if they didn't want to see me or their dad that was up to them. Ateotd you can't "force" a teenager.

Mediation isn't compulsorily. The judge can't enforce this it's recommended before court obviously! As it's better to avoid court. Mediation isn't legally binding so if you have a difficult parent and I cam absolutely relate you do NEEd court because its legally binding.

Me and ex have poor commication I don't go to him about anything quote frankly he couldn't care less. How old are your kids OP?

This is right, I’ve had a teenager say “well what’s a judge going to do to make me?” and the answer is generally “nothing!”

It’s natural for teens to want to do normal teenager things with mates at weekends and begin to have lives away from their parents. So certainly for your teenager OP there is little a court can do to enforce an order. I’m not sure how old the others are?

The judge might not make the teenager go but the ex-husband might go back to his solicitors and say I’m not sending them. I’d need some solid evidence to show him not wanting to go so I wouldn’t get accused of not following the CAO….

The judge might not make the teenager go but the ex-husband might go back to his solicitors and say I’m not sending them. I’d need some solid evidence to show him not wanting to go so I wouldn’t get accused of not following the CAO….

I think you need to talk to your own solicitor because my understanding is the same as previous posters - teenagers can't be forced contact with the NRP. Your ex may still be a pain and try and control you in other ways but the older 2 should be able to decide for themselves.

Yes go back to your solicitor. The fact they won't allow him to pick up from school says quite a lot. It's not a healthy relationship.

How longs since the order has been in place OP?

And you mentioned about their dad coming to live in the UK? What's the backstory there?

The CAO has only been in place since November. Backstory in a nutshell: I lived here with the kids, he worked in his home country. We visited each other in our own countries. Filed unreasonable behaviour as he wouldn’t make plans to live together either here or there and went on motorbike holidays instead of coming to see me and the children and treat me like a nanny rather than wife. Any money to help look after the children came from his mother who is wealthy so that didn’t make him responsible and he didn’t help with decisions about their childcare or help with their care because he had an attitude I’m going in a few weeks
whats the point to do that. He wouldn’t speak to them in his native tongue - “what’s the point? They don’t understand they’re babies?” And doesn’t do celebrations from his country with them I’ve done that a bit for them but my kids identify as British only and struggle with his identity. He can’t look after them on his own. He doesn’t have the bond that Dads normally have. He might have wanted to come see them but shortly after divorce COVID restrictions started and he barely tried to contact them in lockdown. Any video calls were boring for the kids it’d be hard for me to get them to speak to him and he never prepared anything to talk to them about so they were bored. He’s just come to live here and wants into their lives again and wants to see them. I’ve got no problem with that but he should set himself up and do it gradually but no. My parents are interfering because I was bought out of my “marital home” my parents lived there and didn’t support my divorce because they like the rent free life living off my kids’ trust fund so they just disregard the kids feelings and make them see their dad. Why should he be allowed to be such a bad husband and horrible to me when married and they treat him like a king. I’m angry with them. So he came he in June, he hasn’t set himself up with a job, he chooses to live 250 miles away where his mum bought a property but there’s nothing there for the children, he can’t drive, can barely cook them a meal and doesn’t make plans of things to do with them - my parents do it for him! Kids are confused because they want to see their grandparents but he is there. After a few years of my parents’ no listening to my feelings and coming round and swearing at me in front of the kids in my house, I made the decision not to speak to my parents at all and so their contact time is basically through my ex husband. I’ve no problem with my kids having a relationship with their dad but that that needs to be done gradually and following the children’s lead and I argued this to Cafcass when he took me to court for not sending the kids to see him when they didn’t want to go. Kids were going to see grandparents and finding dad was there unexpectedly and were confused and upset. They just wanted grandparents time. I had a lot of challenging behaviour and got support from school. Because my family backed my ex up it looked like I was lying but I was listening to the children. They’d go out for an hour for a meal or see him to have a chat in my home but they didn’t want to stay with him. At court it’s not evidence backed and they ruled he should be able to see them and not considered the kids feelings. It’s started his full time and no build up to the overnights and it’s been hard for them. Now they’ve got to do EOW - the eldest hates it (he may have ASC/ ADHD he gets aggressive as the anxiety about going starts. He’s aggressive and swears and takes up to an hour to get him out of the door, DS says he’s an embarrassing fat f* and I don’t want to be seen in public with him so spends his time at his house playing a PS5 or looking at his phone. Second child has got worse at sleeping since he came over, won’t sleep in own room and camps on the youngest bedroom floor. Been back and forth to GP for support for anxiety and trying to get some meds as it stops everyone else sleeping too. It should be great that a dad comes over and wants to be more involved - It should be easier him helping. Except it hasn’t - I’ve lost all my family and support system and I’m battling challenging behaviour with my kids because they’re suffering. He doesn’t help he just comes as a weekend visitor - he’s missed all their parents evenings since he came over, I’ve done that.
i think he came over because his mum has told him to. I was ill with cancer in 2022 and he arrived after all my curative treatment had finished. I managed looking after them throughout chemotherapy and radiotherapy and then after the operation to remove the diseased tissue. I managed everything without him as I always have. He came in my recovery from surgery and so I have to finish recovering without the support of my family. I have a new supportive partner thankfully and friends who are helping.

For the record, I do the the judge says you’ve got to go and I encourage the contact as requested by the CAO. I do question my children when they are rude about their dad and help them. “ Dad hasn’t seen you for a long time he wants to be part of your life. It can’t be easy for him either. Have you tried phoning him to talk about this? “ etc. I’m sad that they were ever forced into this situation.

@Mnbvcxzlkhgfds How old are your children?

Not putting actual ages but in England school years: one year 9, one year 7 and one year 4.

Ok there's alot in your backstory, it's a bit confusing.

Am I reading right that your ex lives in the UK now, near your parents, which's is 250miles away from where you live with the children.

Does he work, have a job? Does he pay CMS? Sounds like his mother provides a trust fund for the kids?

So typically, he comes down to you on a Friday EOW, picks them up after school, drives them 250miles away for 2 nights, then drives them back Sunday night.

During that time they see both your parents and their father.

Have I got this right?

Stop sending the 14 year old. Just stop. He can take you back to court if he chooses but nobody can force a 14 year old to go to contact against their wishes. Did cafcass speak to the teenager?

This is a stressful mess but getting annoyed about mediation and Cafcas is focusing your anger in the wrong direction. Mediation would have been an expensive waste of time with this man and wouldn't have changed the end result.

The situation is tricky because if the oldest two don't want to go the court can't necessarily force them - particularly if the school provides supporting evidence - but they would likely want to enforce the order for the youngest. How would you feel about them going alone?

Did they speak to the children at all?
I don’t think mediation is going to help you if he’s dismissive of you

No Cafcass didn’t want to speak to my children. None of the recommendations made by Cafcass were listened to at court. When I got to the courtroom the judge had not read my position statement prior to the hearing starting. Ex only applied for EOW and half the school holidays luckily. All my parents’ contact is through him. So I left the courtroom feeling unhappy with there’s no way to repair my broken family and to force ex to be independent of my family and take care of the children himself but at least I have boundaries and if he sticks to the EOW i can have some time to myself. But he’s not reliable and the kids don’t want to go so it’s still a stressful mess.

Ex comes to my hometown for his weekends, stays in my ex marital home a few miles from where I live and where my parents live (rent free and salaried from the trust fund) and rest of the time lives 250 miles away. At holidays, he gets them to visit him by also inviting my parents and my brother and his family travel down there with my kids). My kids don’t want to go but when my family support my ex and do all the planning and childcare because they benefit financially from him and don’t care about my feelings or the children’s - what can I do? I asked my parents previously not to help him the response: “he’s going to pay someone to do this so he might as well pay me”. They only care about themselves not the children. I can’t advocate for the children when they tell me they don’t want to go because no one believes me - my whole family back my ex up. I’ll just have to keep asking school pastoral teams to check in on my kids as school are neutral and can record their feelings.

Yes it is a mess indeed.

Let's separate things out a bit.

1. You are ok for your children to have a relationship with dad
2. You're not concerned for their safety
3. You would benefit from time to your self
4. You are ok with them having a relationship with your family...?
5. You're not concerned about their safety with your family

Are you financially independent since the split? And it sounds like the children are financially set for the future - is all that secure?

Curious about the financial set up between GP and ex but sounds complicated. Is there a link between them providing access to the children and their financial position with him? Sounds like it?

If all the above is right, then your problem is that the kids don't want to go and it's distressing.

In which case as previous OP, stop making the teenager to go, and let the others. Explain when they are older they have a choice too but for now they don't.

The reality is that it sounds like the children aren't at risk. They might not like it but then loads of kids don't, and at least they are seeing family members at the same time who they do want to see (right?). So I think could be a lot worse.

Could the Grandparents to school pick Ionian Friday if they don't want him to? If they're being made for this, make them work. They sound narcisstic and manipulative.

In fact through all of this your problem is mostly then. You have no grounds to remove them though, restraining order?

Yes Ex lives in the UK now. In a city 250 miles away. He comes up here to see the kids and stays in our ex marital house now owned by him where my parents live. its a few miles from where I live. At holidays he wants the kids to go to him where he is living.

No Cafcass weren’t interested in listening to the children.