Submitting Form E

[Nimbus1999]

We have a court date in April to go through the finances.

Is there anything stopping us submitting our form Es now? I thought perhaps if we have each other’s information, we could at least try to negotiate something before the court date.

How early is too early?

Submit to each other and to the court.

are you going consent order route? If so you need to summarise form E onto D81 for court

the court will not look at financial order until post interim order (decree nisi as was). The forms D81 and legal draft of consent order can’t be submitted before that. They are sealed at same time as finals order( decree absolute as was)

There is nothing to stop you and stbex agreeing your D81 and form E and drawing up your non legalcworded draft consent order. You can then pass that to your solicitor (you will need a solicitor for this bit) and they can convert into the legal draft ready for court, and check over your D81. My solicitor had us sign everything but not date it, and she filled in dates day after decree nisi and added to our court records electronically.

I don’t know if with revision to the law in 2022 you can add your own documents and upload D81 direct into your court case, but you couldn’t back in 2o21, the solicitor did this. Avoid posting as so many stories here of getting lost in system and slowing things down

take a look at ADVICE NOW link above. They are brilliant documents and tell you exactly what to do and when. They tell you what you should use solicitor for, what you might use one for, and what you really don’t need one for. I used them in 2021 and we had a very quick and cheap divorce.

It’s a contested financial order.

We wanted the court to decide. Was just thinking about a last ditch effort to agree ourselves.

No solicitors involved.

If your forms are ready nothing is stoping you to exchange them now. The rule is you should exchange then on the same day and 35 days before the first appointment. If the other side has made changes after the exchange, you will know as they have to share all the documents before the hearing with you. That will work against them as the judge will see it as they are trying to manipulate the evidence.
I am no lawyer, this is what i know from my experience.
Good luck.

Our court date is not until April

The court date doesn't have an effect on the date that you exchange your form E as long as it is before the 35 days. As you sated is may help to come to an agreement before the first appointment.

So after you exchange, do you have to provide further evidence from the date of exchange to the date of the court case?

No. Form E and the supporting documents (bank statements ect,) has to be submitted at the same day. You do not change anything after. If you notice things are not correct you question them. There is a form that you submit to his solicitor or him before court and they will be asked on that first appointment about it. If the judge will notice that they are trying to hide assets he will rule in your favour.

So if we submit say 1 March, there will be no record of what happened from 1 March to the court case in April?

That wouldn't be a problem unless you or the other the other party expect a huge payment in that month. You are providing the court with 12 months statement. That will tell the judge how much is worth each of you.
If one of you expects some money in the near future you are required to declare it.

Ok thanks!

How far disconnected are you both in your offers?
would be better to try to reach compromise and agree outside of court

I don’t feel we are a million miles away. He wants 50/50 and us both to rent. I would like 50/50 but 70% equity / less pension so that I can buy.

Difficult to say with u detaining numbers

have the pensions been valued, does 30% of equity equal 20% of pensions ( considering that £1 equity is not equal to £1 pension) have you had proper valuations to assess ?

are there children involved?

Be careful with that assumption that £1 of pension is worth 'less' than £1 of house equity / cash. That can very much depend on your age and types of pension.

Yes it can
but it’s also not simply the case that 100k of equity is same as 100k pot of pension
of course this can depend on whether defined benefit or contribution, and ages/time to go to retirement but general principle is pension is less liquid, more variable ( if defined contribution) and due to time value of money is not valued the sane

point really is they both need proper valuations before anyone can decide whether 70:30 is ‘fair’ outcome or if 50:50 is the way to go

and of course understand relative £ involved here. Wouldn’t advise court if arguing relatively small £

My issue is, he refuses to give financial disclosure. Just wants to sell house and settle 50/50. I felt like I had no choice but to apply to court. I am LIP.

There are children, all 13 and under. New 50/50 custody started recently (not court approved, since dispute about equity split) before I was primary cater and he had them EOW.

And I tried lots first - trying to sort ourselves, trying to sort via mediation, trying to sort via solicitor but he has refused to engage. I’m 1.5 years in now and just want to move on with our lives.

His only acceptable solution is to sell and split equity 50/50 which means neither of us can buy (he can’t buy anyway as no job or income apparently)

I work full time and can port our current fixed mortgage.

Be careful op
tiu need disclosure to inc and value pensions - court will expect that

you both have the same housing needs as you share care 50:50

You are working, he is not ( at least on paper) so your ability to get mortgage etc is greater than his. He could argue that he needs higher equity in order to house children and a court may agree.

courts don’t necessarily care about whether you buy or rent / just that children and both parties are adequately housed ( and you have same needs so no material reason for significant asset variation ) so could absolutely order a sale and 50:50 but pensions are key

you need a solicitor op even if just for guidance while you do alot of the paperwork
what did your prior one say?

It’s all so tricky. My pension is £10k, his is £200k (was higher earner). I was primary carer. He got a £100k redundancy. He has a business now.

How will the courts deem it if he is not actually able to get a mortgage? Because he has no income? But was a higher earner before for 10+ years.

I thought it couldn’t get worse than 50/50 equity but maybe I am wrong.

I have no idea what happened to redundancy or the value of the business.

I had advice from a solicitor (I was advised to go for a higher equity percentage than 70% and not 50/50 overall) but was primary carer then.

I cant afford any further solicitor costs now. I live month to month with no savings. Any money from the sale I need for (a) towards a mortgage or (b) to cover rent as my wages will not cover rent for me & the kids so I will have to use equity every month to cover the shortfall.

honestly, I know it’s a struggle, but I think you need legal support
and proper pensions valuations
a court will expect full disclosure

it sounds complicated due to his business/ not earning etc

but based on today on paper simply going fromwhat is in here I’d be concerned that

your housing needs are identical ( you share care 50:50)
you are working and can get a mortgage
he on paper isn’t and cannot
you don’t really have a case for higher share

but pensions valuation and split will be pivotal to understand
as well as any savings ( from redundancy?)

again based on needs basis and the limited info in the thread
which is why you can’t afford not to have a solicitor