Who has a whole week away from DC at xmas?

[New2Us]

Trying to work out logistics.

DC live with me but Judge said to aim for 50:50 holidays and alternate half terms.

The judge didn't like children having to share the same day between two households at Christmas, so allocated Christmas with one parent and new year with the other parent, alternating every year.

It's been left wide open to 2 weeks Christmas holiday being divided as the Christmas parent getting the first week, and the new year parent getting the second week. This means there are no days for Christmas to be had with one parent, all week.

People say just have 2 Christmases but no child is going to want to do Christmas all over again in a week's time at New Year. It makes more sense to allocated only the day itself and share some of the actual week, so one parent has Christmas day and the other Christmas eve or Boxing Day, and one has NYE and the other New Year day.

Or not?

Oh, and just to complicate matters, ex is absolutely not workable with, and has a history of being narcissistic and abusive so I can't see it changing.

The way it works for the next decade is I don't get much time with DC and the way it falls on his weekends he gets either side of my Christmases but I get nothing on his!

I am pretty certain DC won't like that at all. I know I don't! I've been a bit unlucky with how the allocations sit with future days that Christmas week falls on, which makes it all really difficult to figure out how to do this.

How do other people navigate this? Please don't say compromise with ex as it's just not prepared to work with me. It's all about control.

That is true but you have to go back to court to change the order and I don’t think any of us (kids included) can face that…. And ex husband would never relinquish time with them out of principle so for the moment it stays… but I don’t think it will be long before DC becomes more vocal about it himself and then we’ll see what happens. ATM he vociferously complains to me but is slightly wary of his dad so doesn’t say much to him….

it’s hard tho hey. I am sad without them today! X

You are not alone. I also feel like someone's ripped my limb off and walked off with it, expecting me to carry on with Christmas Day as though nothing happened. Especially difficult as one of mine is the same age as yours, and complains to me about going to dads normally, much less at Christmas, but is so sweet with Dad that you'd never guess there's an issue. Courts only seem interested in 50:50 these days, unless a child protests too loudly, but mine are too considerate and in this case overly well-behaved (even their complaining is riddle with guilt, yet they are completely right not to like Dad putting Mum down all the time and having them watch age inappropriate stuff (18 rating while still single digit age-wise) and would rather suffer than upset their Dad. Probably a coping survival mechanism to be fair, but none the less, would not help in court.

I'm glad they're happy about it and hope you are okay too 🤗

The divvying up of this year's time from 15- 23rd would be highly contested with my ex unfortunately. Not sure I can face that yearly unpleasantry, especially as he would find out which days I want and claim them for himself. Everything is a very clever way to have power over me still. I live in fear of returning to court as we have been so many times and outcomes are so variable - it really does depend on which judge you get on the day.

How does that work with this year's holiday starting on Friday, the 15th of December? Truly even if the other parent had the first weekend before you began the holiday on Monday the 18th, by the time you get to December 27 one Parents had nine days in the other one can't have a week because they will be back to school before then.

So did you plan to cram their second Christmas in on the 27th between them spending Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day with their dad, before they return to him on the 28th until New Year's Eve? That feels unfair against you! Did the children mind? Sorry if I am too blunt with my questions as it may be a sore point and I don't want anybody to feel more sad Christmas Day, then they might already do

Why do you need to work on a plan that starts the 15th? Christmas is (imo) 24th (23rd at a push) to 2nd Jan - battle out a plan for those days, and all the days 15-23 just works as it would on any other month.

Then the usual regime kicks back in 3rd Jan.

Thanks @New2Us I have adult dc too so ds20 is back from uni and we will be going to see ds28 and the dgc later so that keeps me busy!

It feels particularly shit this year as ds 10 has asd and still believes but I think I'll have to tell him in the summer before he goes up to secondary school

At 9.30 no one was up yet so the poor boy has been waiting hours to open his presents . Ds12 says this is the last year he's going for Christmas but we shall see

It says to aim for alternate half terms and 50:50 holidays with Mum having them at Christmas one year and Dad new year, then alternating. It doesn't say whether Christmas consists of just Christmas Day or the entire week, and the same with New Year. What we've actually done is attached a week to that parents weekend, so we don't disrupt the weekend, but it does mean the one parent gets the whole of the Christmas season some years. This year works out well because Christmas falls on a weekend and so one person will get christmas eve in their weekend and the other will get Christmas day on Monday, which is the start of the new week. When it's a midweek Christmas it works out terribly though. it might be that it's talking about the day in singularity. It might be that it's talking about the entire week, and the fact it doesn't say either way complicates it.

It's actually written really vaguely and is written in such a way that access must be encouraged but the children's wishes must also be considered. However, while they have been verbal about not wanting to go to dad's in the past, the judge still wanted them to see him, but more recently they've given up asking not to go so it's hard to tell whether Dad has improved or they've simply given up protesting. And although one of them guiltily complains to me about not wanting to go, it's always from the point of view of being a bad child for not wanting to go, rather than a normal byproduct of their experience because of the kind of person that Dad is (I can't say that though, I can only normalise the fact that we go through ebbs and flows with what we want and it would be perfectly natural to sometimes not want to go to one parent or the other).

I think it's because they broke up on the 15th for a two week holiday, and we are trying to incorporate the 50-50 holiday part of the court order with the alternate Christmas and New Year part. It may be they're not compatible but with my ex you really need to start as you mean to go on Otherwise trying to change later wrong can be extremely problematic and open to him playing silly buggers all the time.

@AllIsWellish "
Thanks @New2Us I have adult dc too so ds20 is back from uni and we will be going to see ds28 and the dgc later so that keeps me busy!

It feels particularly shit this year as ds 10 has asd and still believes but I think I'll have to tell him in the summer before he goes up to secondary school

At 9.30 no one was up yet so the poor boy has been waiting hours to open his presents . Ds12 says this is the last year he's going for Christmas but we shall see"

It's so difficult because ultimately Christmas is for the children in my opinion, and I know they want to have their Christmases with their mum much more than they do with their dad. Yes, they love their dad and they do want to have some contact with him, just not the entire week and it's hard to see times like you've just described where a child has to wait for hours to open presents which you would make sure will never happen.

I think I'd do a different 'special' day without Christmassy things. I wonder if your ex has poisoned the kids about doing a second Christmas with you. If you know what they enjoy, surprise them with a day out/in doing all the things you all love together - maybe going to a show, going to a safari park, ice-skating, football match whatever it is they enjoy. Make it a surprise so ex can't spoil it in advance.

Well done for getting away from him btw. He can try to poison things but you can keep reminding yourself that you don't have to put up with him every day any more and the kids will probably go NC when they're older.

I know what you mean, if he hadn't moved abroad it would be much simpler for us ,as it is he only sees them every 4 months and then they are away for weeks at a time which isn't what they are going to want going into teen years, well ds12 already thinks he goes for too long

I hope you manage to have an OK Christmas, it really is shite though, I may have missed it but how old are the dc?

My DC aren't great fans of Christmas dinner, so I guess that helped a lot and ex-H wasn't a very festive person.

Instead of allocating days for different things, they knew that over the Christmas period we would go to a panto, have a Chinese takeaway with family, have a big buffet with family, a Christmas film night, have a pyjama day where there were no rules for the day but never on the same days each year so I could flex what we did around the days they went to DH. For presents, if they weren't with me Christmas day, we just did them the morning after their first night back with me, but we were past Santa age.

I guess my main message is don't feel tied in to what is 'supposed' to happen at Christmas on certain days but make an effort to make new traditions that work for you all.

@New2Us One year, have you considered taking them away for Christmas in 'your' year?

I can think of several holiday cottages in the highlands, and one in Cornwall where there is no mobile reception and you could have an undisturbed Christmas with log fires and beach walks, in peace.

Just a thought. 😊

Most families try to discuss a compromise amicably, it sounds like in this case a judge had to be involved. If you can find a way with your ex to make it work for both of you, then this is the way forward

To be honest it’s them who ask for it! They don’t really want to go to dads and say it’s not ‘real Christmas’ till they’re home so we have to do it all again here! I don’t mind as we just abstain from celebrating with my family until tomorrow. They insist that they have to celebrate here as well if they’re there over actual Christmas, however it doesn’t work the other way around - when they’re with me for Christmas dad doesn’t recreate the whole thing the day after. That’s just the way they want it!

Today has been a very quiet day but that’s fine, they called me and the older one was upset which upsets me but I don’t let it show to them and am focussing on getting to tomorrow morning when they’re back x

This was really nice to read... strengthening. Thank you for the reminder that I am so much better without him and that the DC will vote with their feet if they are inclined to do so, when they really see what they're getting.

It's always much easier when they direct you with their wishes. Mine have just given up, resigned that it's not what they want anymore.

Reading your DC was upset on the phone is heartbreaking. I really hope you have a fabulous time together tomorrow.

I'd love to be able to but sadly it takes two to tango.

I did talk about this a few days ago and they bit my head off! I found ex didn't want to call when we went abroad so it would have the same effect as the highlands or cornwall. I suggested holiday sun because the live for the sunshine, but they're too traditional I'm afraid.

@Floopani I like your suggestions and many on the list are on ours too.

Unfortunately ex knows that m, and did a bunch of them in his weekend before I had my week. I could try to find new things but it's a constant war and I have to really put a lot into this to keep it afloat. But it's a good reminder to maybe think about the things they they like, that are special to do at Christmas, rather than actual Christmas stuff itself, tied to certain days and times.

My children quite like two Christmases mainly due to the presents!

It sounds like you need to have set dates put into your visitation agreement so then there's no back and forth with your ex about it all. If I had to negotiate dates each year with my ex it would be a nightmare.
We have all holidays scheduled for odd and even years (we're not in the uk so not sure how it works with you)

Sounds like the phone calls also cause problems. Had a similar issue with my ex always calling when we were doing bedtime etc so put a WiFi blocker on eldest child's phone at bedtime as ex wouldn't respect my boundaries (fine to call but not after 6:30) I also had to have a conversation with the eldest about convenient times for calls. He's not allowed to speak to me when at his dad's so I don't feel bad putting some boundaries in place which help us to have a more peaceful home life.