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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Final Hearing tomorrow - Help please

30 replies

Rubystar78 · 26/10/2023 15:02

Hi all
My first time posting and I just wanted to reach out for any help advice on a final hearing for financial matters. He wants me to sell the house to get his name off the mortgage but my mortgage capacity isn't enough due to my low earnings (£16k per annum). I've a final salary pension with work that's been running 23 years and he wants 50% of that. I'm the primary carer of the children aged 12 and 9. I'm 45, he's 37 and he runs his own business claiming he earns £30K per annum but I know its more as he doesn't declare the cash. Can anyone help with how they feel it may go in court tomorrow please? I'm panicking I'll have to sell the house and the children and won't have a home 😪

OP posts:
LetsTryToHelp · 26/10/2023 15:21

I am assuming it is final financial hearing.

Haven't you both filled the section 25 form disclosing all your individual assets etc?

millymollymoomoo · 26/10/2023 15:53

Have you been through FDR ? What was indicated in that ?
what are you proposing in terms of settlement if not selling the house? How do you propose to release him from the mortgage which is only right ? He has a right to share of your pension ( it’s in the pot for splitting)
are you working full time ?

Original poster
Rubystar78 · 26/10/2023 16:13

Yes both S25 have been completed.
At the FDR hearing is was indicated 60/40 on the house and 50/50 pension. I work part time since I had the children. I'm proposing a deferred sale until my youngest child is 18 and I can look to work FT again

OP posts:
Original poster
Rubystar78 · 26/10/2023 16:18

Does anyone know if I will be able to share the pension just for the time we were married? (5 years) so ringfence my pre/Post marital contributions?

OP posts:
Spacecowboys · 26/10/2023 16:22

Does he not have his own pension? I would be trying to protect your final salary pension if I was you ( even by taking less of the house equity). It will be more valuable than 10% more equity now.

RandomMess · 26/10/2023 16:24

So he doesn't have a pension? I wouldn't believe him tbh!

Did he look after the DC so you could work to contribute to yours?

Cumberbiatch · 26/10/2023 16:25

I don't think a court would think it was reasonable to wait until your youngest is 18 before you work full time, sorry. They will probably take your earning capacity into consideration.

gotomomo · 26/10/2023 16:27

I doubt the court will delay the sale, the most you can hope for is a short time to allow you to return to full time work

PivotPivotmakingmargaritas · 26/10/2023 16:36

I don’t think a court will delay the sale of the joint home/ property for 9 years from a 5 year marriage.

LemonTT · 26/10/2023 16:38

If you have a 12 year old then you must have been together 13 odd years. That will be considered the length of the marriage and the minimum period for pension sharing. But it’s most likely to be a pension share as you were together most of his adult life and you have 20 more years of working life.

I think your answer is to increase your income. A good co parenting arrangement could facilitate this.

If your share of the equity provides enough to pay rent then the homeless argument is weak.

Anything can happen in court but you have had a heads up.

LegendsBeyond · 26/10/2023 16:41

He’s quite likely to get half your pension. Does he not have one? You’ll be expected to work FT asap.

Cornpops · 26/10/2023 16:54

The interests of the children are paramount (Children's Act 1989) If they are mainly residing with you, particularly through the week during school terms, they need consistency and to be settled and not have a change of home as well as family situation. The court may think he needs to be somewhat compensated somehow but it's all about balance.
State everything from the children's viewpoint rather than you vs him. If you are the children's main carer, he can rent as many do. If selling your house would mean you wouldn't be able to buy another one and if there is not guarantee he would be able to buy, then why should you and the children forgo your secure home.
I assume if you are the main carer, you may be going for maintenance or is it just a distribution of assets etc? Will it be a "clean break" divorce? This would protect any earnings you have going forward or earnings from a future partner of yours.
Separating finances usually means everyone is worse off. I brought my children up alone. I had to up my income as much as possible. I know you just dealing with tomorrow right now, but once it's done, have a think about what you can do next to make yourself as independent as possible.
He may not have a pension. Can court direct that his accountant provides evidence. I don't know but worth asking. Lots for people take cash when self-employed but it's sadly difficult to prove and not seen as reliable.

FSTraining · 26/10/2023 16:58

Possible outcome based solely on the facts presented here:

  1. You will be expected to maximise your earning capacity and the court will assume full time work when child is 11, not 18;

  2. 50/50 pension split for past 13 years; and

  3. Either immediate order for sale with 60/40 split or when youngest is 11 with 50/50 split.

However, courts have wide discretion so don't bank on any of this.

Original poster
Rubystar78 · 26/10/2023 17:00

He has a very small pension worth around £3500. At this moment I don't see how I can work FT until at least my youngest goes to high school. I do all the school drop offs/pick ups and have no family to help with childcare. The mortgage outstanding us around £140000 and I've been paying it on my own for the last 3 years.

Thanks for all the support so far 😊

OP posts:
FSTraining · 26/10/2023 17:02

@Cornpops Beware of falling into the trap of children being paramount. They are, but their needs are not exclusive and the courts also have to be fair. Also, parents interpretations of what they need is often at odds with what the courts think (e.g. a court will want to achieve two homes for children to have meaningful relationships with both parents. If that means both renting, that may be the outcome).

LetsTryToHelp · 26/10/2023 17:21

Rubystar78 · 26/10/2023 16:13

Yes both S25 have been completed.
At the FDR hearing is was indicated 60/40 on the house and 50/50 pension. I work part time since I had the children. I'm proposing a deferred sale until my youngest child is 18 and I can look to work FT again

Is it 60% for you or him?

Is the home mortgage free and is the 40% more or less than the 50% pension value?

"Rubystar78 · Today 15:02
Hi all
I'm 45, he's 37"

You may or may not be able to use this slightly to your advantage.

"Rubystar78 · Today 15:02
he runs his own business claiming he earns £30K per annum but I know its more as he doesn't declare the cash. "

Get your barrister to emphasize on this to the judge.

"Rubystar78 · Today 15:02
I'll have to sell the house and the children and won't have a home"

You won't be homeless since you will be receiving enough equity from the sale of the home to at least rent a place.

The other possibility is that you may be given a few years to stay in the place, increase your earnings and then buy him out.

But you will have to calculate how much earning capacity you will have to and can increase to meet that threshold. If you want to do that, then plan and work out childcare with your ex.

Original poster
Rubystar78 · 26/10/2023 17:24

Thanks everyone for your replies so far, I guess I have to expect 50/50 and immediate sale of the house. Its the children I feel sorry for, they've been through so much already.

If it wasn't for my deposit from a previous home we wouldn't have got mortgage on this home and I've been paying the mortgage on my own since he left. Renting would cost me double the amount I currently pay 😒

OP posts:
LetsTryToHelp · 26/10/2023 17:26

Rubystar78 · 26/10/2023 17:24

Thanks everyone for your replies so far, I guess I have to expect 50/50 and immediate sale of the house. Its the children I feel sorry for, they've been through so much already.

If it wasn't for my deposit from a previous home we wouldn't have got mortgage on this home and I've been paying the mortgage on my own since he left. Renting would cost me double the amount I currently pay 😒

You should get more than 50% on the house based on you paying the deposit and the mortgage from the last 3 years.

Make sure your barrister knows about this or are you representing yourself?

millymollymoomoo · 26/10/2023 18:42

ts likely the court won’t deviate from the recommendation at fdr so 60:40 to you and 50:50 pension
a court will deem total length of the relationship and cohabitation as the length of the marriage not just 5 years

you’ll be expected to maximise your income ( you can use after school sckuvs/ex/etc to assist school drop offs ?) and release him
from mortgage as soon as possible - perhaps delayed a bit but another 9 years is probably not a realistic outcome

the fact youve paid mortgage won’t count as you’ve had sole occupation

LemonTT · 26/10/2023 20:19

LetsTryToHelp · 26/10/2023 17:26

You should get more than 50% on the house based on you paying the deposit and the mortgage from the last 3 years.

Make sure your barrister knows about this or are you representing yourself?

Show quote history

They are married. Their assets are joint with very few exceptions. Living in the house and paying the mortgage was the cheapest housing option for the OP. Her ex is likely to have had higher housing costs at this time. It’s not a game changer.

OP you need to decide if you want to own a home. If so you need to build your income. You wouldn’t get a mortgage with 100% of the equity if your income is 16k per year.

I assume this is your salary and you get UC and CMS. These can be used in mortgage calculations.

FSTraining · 26/10/2023 21:34

LetsTryToHelp · 26/10/2023 17:26

You should get more than 50% on the house based on you paying the deposit and the mortgage from the last 3 years.

Make sure your barrister knows about this or are you representing yourself?

Show quote history

FDR said 60/40 but not for the reasons you give, neither of which is correct when couples are married. You would be closer to correct if they were unmarried, subject to all the facts.

Mumof3confused · 26/10/2023 23:14

I hope it goes well for you

LetsTryToHelp · 27/10/2023 07:18

millymollymoomoo · 26/10/2023 18:42

ts likely the court won’t deviate from the recommendation at fdr so 60:40 to you and 50:50 pension
a court will deem total length of the relationship and cohabitation as the length of the marriage not just 5 years

you’ll be expected to maximise your income ( you can use after school sckuvs/ex/etc to assist school drop offs ?) and release him
from mortgage as soon as possible - perhaps delayed a bit but another 9 years is probably not a realistic outcome

the fact youve paid mortgage won’t count as you’ve had sole occupation

The recommendations at FDR are taken with a pinch of salt.

"the fact youve paid mortgage won’t count as you’ve had sole occupation"

It's not about sole occupation, but the contribution both financially and the family (children).

It is not clear whether the ex contributed financially, either towards child maintentance, mortgage or spousal maintenance.

LetsTryToHelp · 27/10/2023 07:21

FSTraining · 26/10/2023 21:34

FDR said 60/40 but not for the reasons you give, neither of which is correct when couples are married. You would be closer to correct if they were unmarried, subject to all the facts.

Show quote history

If what the OP is said is true, I don't see why can't these points be emphasized in front of the judge.

It may or may not influence the judge's decision. In my case it did!

MintJulia · 27/10/2023 07:35

OP, I don't know what you do for work, but there are more jobs you can do full time now. I've always worked full time, lived near the school, relied on wrap-around care. Now with wfh it is genuinely easier.

Try to up your hours asap, if you can. Your 9yo will cope with a couple of years afterschool club.

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