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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Ex refusing to negotiate financials

26 replies

Calipso32 · 10/10/2023 13:18

I really need some advice and help from others who have gone though this. I told my unmarried ex partner of 10 years I want to separate a week ago. He was livid and told me I was going to traumatise my children what a selfish, sadistic person I am etc etc. He has since seemed to accept our relationship is over but not if it means any change to our DCs lives (daughters 9 months, 3 years) or his own. He will not discuss the house being sold (over his dead body) (we are tenants in common shares owned 50 50) and will not discuss buying my share. After a week of horrible heated discussions that went nowhere he told me A) I was clearly having a mental breakdown and B) must have met someone else and want to move in/buy with them. He can't contemplate any other reason I would leave him, which shows you the height of his arrogance.

He came to me this morning with his proposal - A) we will stay living together in the house but separately, caring for the girls - until' we meet other people' and 'the time is right'! (he would not discuss any time frame)

Or: I move out into rented and he will take over the mortgage payments and live here with our children. He will give me a little money to pay my rent.

He's of the mindset that the family house of where our children belong and that to remove them would be traumatising. He's said 'I'll protect the family home at all costs'. This is ludicrous and what will really damage them is to live with two parents in conflict being forced to live together. My daughters are already feeling the effects of this and I can see they're more unsettled this week.

I want to buy my next house with my equity but I don't see how to get this back. He's insinuating that he's seen a lawyer who's agreed with him that I'm a sadistic person (?!) and if I try to force a sale I'll lose as the court will always try to keep the kids in the family home. He said he'll see me in court. I have no idea if he's actually seen a lawyer, I know his sister and parents are a bit strange and my concern is he has no one to talk any sence into him.

I'm trying to arrange mediation but I'm not convinced he'll agree to it. I have my MIAM tomorrow.

The children and I are incredibly close, my eldest has been challenging in the past (big meltdowns and some jealousy with her sister) but I know her so well and how to manage her difficult behaviour, whereas my Ex struggles when she has tantrums etc and I have to take over every time.

Ive been arranging house valuations this week as a first step, and he stood threateningly over the first one this morning, and told me if anyone else comes to the house he'll call the police.

I feel hopeless and defeated and very unsure of what to do next. Should I get a lawyer?

OP posts:
Uncooperativefingers · 10/10/2023 13:24

Of course you should get a lawyer! Why wouldn't you?

Labradoodlie · 10/10/2023 13:28

Yes, you get a lawyer.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 10/10/2023 13:28

He hasn’t seen a lawyer.

But you should.

Quitelikeit · 10/10/2023 13:28

Is it much equity? As in worth fighting for?

FSTraining · 10/10/2023 13:30

I had to go through something similar although mine was amicable to the point of disbelief! Whilst my ex-wife had decided the marriage was over and had been having affairs with other people, she repeatedly asked me to please consider to continue living in the FMH. I was of the same mindset as you that it would not be in the DCs' interests to confuse them like that. Also, in my case I worried that an amicable split would be tested to the limit once new partners entered the scene and things had to quickly change. It just didn't seem like a good idea at all.

Your ex is wrong about the FMH. The courts will occasionally let one parent live there if there is absolutely no other option to adequately house the children but they will only do that where one parent has the majority of child care responsibilities. It's also even harder to get this outcome in the case of unmarried couples. It is far more common to sell and split and in the case of unmarried couples like you it will normally be 50/50 or in accordance with ownership split as tenants in common.

The only problem you will have is that if he doesn't engage in mediation, then you will have to take it to court and this might be expensive. However, whilst you are stuck on the mortgage of this house you won't be able to buy anything else so this may be necessary. That said, it's early days and you might just need to wait longer than a week for it to sink in that you are splitting and get his head around the next steps. Maybe aim to be entering mediation in around a month from now?

Original poster
Calipso32 · 10/10/2023 14:07

@quitelikeit yes, if the house sells or I'm bought out I'll walk away with 160-189k in equity.

OP posts:
Original poster
Calipso32 · 10/10/2023 14:16

@FS Training, thankyou for taking the time to reply. I'm glad your divorce was amicable. I had every intention of being amicable, separating in a calm and carefully considered way but his reaction to the breakup is pure madness. The calmer I am, the angrier he gets. He's accused me of threatening him, told me if I'm going to be a b*tch he can be my worst nightmare. There is no logic in his thinking that living together in this house is the best thing for the children and that it's the leaving of the FMH that will do the damage.

I've read that forcing a sale can take years and 10s of thousands in legal fees. My instinct is that leaving the house will weaken my position and right to the equity as he'll be able to say I've not being paying the mortgage. Screwing me over will screw over his kids but he's not grasped this.

OP posts:
mushti · 10/10/2023 18:05

I told my unmarried ex partner of 10 years

You're not married - so why would a court get involved at all?

How can he be forced to sell a house of which he owns half? You can sell your half to him, or to someone else (if you can find someone to buy it) but I don't see how you can force him do anything at all with his half.

LemonTT · 10/10/2023 19:16

mushti · 10/10/2023 18:05

I told my unmarried ex partner of 10 years

You're not married - so why would a court get involved at all?

How can he be forced to sell a house of which he owns half? You can sell your half to him, or to someone else (if you can find someone to buy it) but I don't see how you can force him do anything at all with his half.

Of course a court can force the sale of a jointly owned home. They shouldn’t need to but they can.

OP I’d suggest asking a solicitor about an occupation order. Otherwise plough on and ignore what is just a load of bluster.

One thing I would say is that a lot of people especially on MN react to the news a partner wants a divorce with the accusations of an affair or a breakdown.

mushti · 10/10/2023 19:40

LemonTT · 10/10/2023 19:16

Of course a court can force the sale of a jointly owned home. They shouldn’t need to but they can.

OP I’d suggest asking a solicitor about an occupation order. Otherwise plough on and ignore what is just a load of bluster.

One thing I would say is that a lot of people especially on MN react to the news a partner wants a divorce with the accusations of an affair or a breakdown.

Show quote history

I see that you're correct.

Here's a webpage describing the procedure:
https://springbokproperties.co.uk/blog/under-what-circumstances-can-you-force-a-house-sale-in-the-uk#:~:text=Forcing%20a%20property%20sale%20in%20the%20UK%20basically%20means%20to,property%20that%20you%20own%20jointly.

This (apparently) is under section 14 of the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act (1996).

Section 15 says:

The matters to which the court is to have regard in determining an application for an order under section 14 include:

  • the intentions of the person or persons (if any) who created the trust;
  • the purposes for which the property subject to the trust is held;
  • the welfare of any minor who occupies or might reasonably be expected to occupy any land subject to the trust as his home; and
  • the interests of any secured creditor of any beneficiary.

So the OP has two hurdles to overcome: the property was bought for the purpose of raising their children, and the welfare of the children who live there will be adversely affected.

If her DExP hasn't seen a lawyer he seems to have a reasonable understanding of the law as described in the various webpages I can find.

Under What Circumstances Can You Force a House Sale in the UK? | Springbok Properties Official Blog

If you are a joint-owner of a property, there may come a time when you would like to sell. However, this is not always easy to arrange – particularly if you wish to sell a joint-owned property in its entirety when the other parties involved are less ke...

https://springbokproperties.co.uk/blog/under-what-circumstances-can-you-force-a-house-sale-in-the-uk#:~:text=Forcing%20a%20property%20sale%20in%20the%20UK%20basically%20means%20to,property%20that%20you%20own%20jointly.

INeedAnotherName · 10/10/2023 20:02

The first thing you need to do is get a one off consultation with a divorce solicitor and find out your rights and what can legally be done in your situation. It is actually very stupid to go to mediation without knowing them.

A good solicitor will know how to force the sale of the house quickly and you should explain it is a very toxic, possibly abusive, relationship.

kiddosbedtimealready · 10/10/2023 20:03

If you are tenants in common, you can apply for an order for sale under an act known to lawyers as TOLATA. Google it for details. You need a solicitor to write to him to tell him to agree to a sale, or you will apply for the order and ask the Court to deduct the costs of having to do it from his equity.

caringcarer · 10/10/2023 22:21

mushti · 10/10/2023 18:05

I told my unmarried ex partner of 10 years

You're not married - so why would a court get involved at all?

How can he be forced to sell a house of which he owns half? You can sell your half to him, or to someone else (if you can find someone to buy it) but I don't see how you can force him do anything at all with his half.

If 2 people jointly own a house and 1 wants to sell that is what happens. The house gets put on the market he could buy OP out if he wants to/can afford to or else it's sold and equity split 50/50. They both go their own ways. They have to decide upon where the DC will live.

kiddosbedtimealready · 10/10/2023 22:34

@mushti your post below about obstacles to overcome under s.14 TOLATA is incorrect and misleading. When a relationship ends the Courts have no difficulty recognising that the purpose for which a property was bought as a joint home in an unmarried partnership has ended, and it is in the interests of the children to release equity so the main carer, which is always the mum when there are no safeguarding issues, can set up a new home for them and provide stability. The Courts are not in the habit of allowing one partner a veto over the other's decision to separate physically and financially.

coolkatt · 10/10/2023 23:06

jesus. OP.
stop listening to others, everyone's situation is different, different
laws,
countries etc.
the only thing you need to do is get a solicitor booked ASAP.
and start looking for a
temporary home for you and your girls whom you have every right to remove them
out the home u share.
see a solicitor ASAP.

mushti · 10/10/2023 23:21

kiddosbedtimealready · 10/10/2023 22:34

@mushti your post below about obstacles to overcome under s.14 TOLATA is incorrect and misleading. When a relationship ends the Courts have no difficulty recognising that the purpose for which a property was bought as a joint home in an unmarried partnership has ended, and it is in the interests of the children to release equity so the main carer, which is always the mum when there are no safeguarding issues, can set up a new home for them and provide stability. The Courts are not in the habit of allowing one partner a veto over the other's decision to separate physically and financially.

Ok, I hope you're right, for the OP's sake. There are many many webpages online from different law firms that suggest it's not that easy.

LemonTT · 11/10/2023 00:41

mushti · 10/10/2023 19:40

I see that you're correct.

Here's a webpage describing the procedure:
https://springbokproperties.co.uk/blog/under-what-circumstances-can-you-force-a-house-sale-in-the-uk#:~:text=Forcing%20a%20property%20sale%20in%20the%20UK%20basically%20means%20to,property%20that%20you%20own%20jointly.

This (apparently) is under section 14 of the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act (1996).

Section 15 says:

The matters to which the court is to have regard in determining an application for an order under section 14 include:

  • the intentions of the person or persons (if any) who created the trust;
  • the purposes for which the property subject to the trust is held;
  • the welfare of any minor who occupies or might reasonably be expected to occupy any land subject to the trust as his home; and
  • the interests of any secured creditor of any beneficiary.

So the OP has two hurdles to overcome: the property was bought for the purpose of raising their children, and the welfare of the children who live there will be adversely affected.

If her DExP hasn't seen a lawyer he seems to have a reasonable understanding of the law as described in the various webpages I can find.

Show quote history

It won’t be adversely affected if they find new homes. People move all the time. There is enough equity to ensure both parents can find new homes. Anyway an infant of 9 months will mean the OP is the resident parent. So she would retain the property if there was an issue if the children not being adequately housed.

FSTraining · 11/10/2023 10:06

mushti · 10/10/2023 18:05

I told my unmarried ex partner of 10 years

You're not married - so why would a court get involved at all?

How can he be forced to sell a house of which he owns half? You can sell your half to him, or to someone else (if you can find someone to buy it) but I don't see how you can force him do anything at all with his half.

Normally, separating couples who are not married don't reach court because the amounts they are fighting over are less than the fees.

However, there is one type of case with unmarried couples that is more likely to reach court than others. These are where the house is in the name of only one of the parties but the other alleges that they paid money towards the house (either a contribution to the purchase price or a share of the mortgage) or there was some other indication that the intention was to share the house. Constructive trusts can form in these situations and a court may be asked to determine ownership.

Incidentally, this is also why Mesher Orders in divorce normally terminate when the occupier cohabits. There is a risk of a constructive trust forming for both the resident and non-resident parent if the cohabitee begins paying towards the mortgage.

Milkybarsareonmeeeee · 22/12/2023 09:14

OP how is the situation now. ?

Olenkaa · 22/12/2023 18:18

@mushti do you think the court only gets involved with matters relating to married couples? Also, do you think that this is how the property system works? That people buy share of someone’s else live in property where they plan to continue to reside?

Original poster
Calipso32 · 07/02/2024 08:58

Milkybarsareonmeeeee · 22/12/2023 09:14

OP how is the situation now. ?

Still here, same situation 4 months later.. We're in mediation but have achieved nothing so far. I did see a lawyer and she advised to keep trying mediation to come to a private arrangement as if I force the sale it will cost in the region of 20k, and there's a small chance I may have to pay his costs if I get a bad judge.

In the last session he suggested bird nesting. He wanted to give me a small portion of equity, nothing like what he should and have me plug this into a One bed flat in the area that we would share, whilst taking me off the deeds of the Fh. Go figure...

OP posts:
olderbutwiser · 07/02/2024 09:26

Been there, got the t-shirt (and paid the legal fees).

You’ve blindsided him, humiliated him and taken away his control. His only strategy is to prevent you getting what you want.

You either have to sit it out until he wants something else (a new relationship with luck) or you take away his control by going the legal route. It’s a tough, expensive gig.

Milkybarsareonmeeeee · 07/02/2024 16:48

Calipso32 · 07/02/2024 08:58

Still here, same situation 4 months later.. We're in mediation but have achieved nothing so far. I did see a lawyer and she advised to keep trying mediation to come to a private arrangement as if I force the sale it will cost in the region of 20k, and there's a small chance I may have to pay his costs if I get a bad judge.

In the last session he suggested bird nesting. He wanted to give me a small portion of equity, nothing like what he should and have me plug this into a One bed flat in the area that we would share, whilst taking me off the deeds of the Fh. Go figure...

Show quote history

Wow he is something else.
I think you have to take the hit and push for the sale .
He will be banking you fo nothing and if he sees you are serious he won’t want to loose out on equity either
He wants it all, don’t let him have any of it.
Go to a solicitor and tell then to get court action started . The sooner it’s started the sooner it’s over .

If you do nothing , nothing changes Dig deep

Billi80 · 07/02/2024 22:55

You’ve only just broken up with him. He’s probably in the shock/denial phase of grief. Give him time to accept the relationship is over. It can take months, years even. So tough and I’m sorry but it’s good to show compassion in the start of a break up.

Original poster
Calipso32 · 08/02/2024 08:07

Billi80 · 07/02/2024 22:55

You’ve only just broken up with him. He’s probably in the shock/denial phase of grief. Give him time to accept the relationship is over. It can take months, years even. So tough and I’m sorry but it’s good to show compassion in the start of a break up.

We broke up on 1st October. He's HD over 4 months to come to terms with it

OP posts:
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