What's fair to the ex-wife?

[DarrellRiversIsMyHero]

Me and DP have a gorgeous 3 year old together. He has two children (19 and 17) with his ex-wife.
When he and his ex-wife split 7/8ish years ago, they made no changes to their finances, and that has never changed. He continues to pay her mortgage and bills in full and is named on all of them. We (him, me, our child) live in my house, which I bought before we got together. I continue to pay all the mortgage and bills for us and he pays for his ex-wife.
Now his youngest child is nearly 18 and he is attempting to negotiate a finance split with his ex-wife. I'm trying to keep as much out of it as I can - it's non of my business - but I have no idea how a financial settlement works when so much time has passed since the split. Will he have to continue to pay her to live in their old home? She cannot afford it on her own (it's a much bigger property than the one he lives in with me). And for how long? Will the pension split be based on what they each had 7 years ago, or where they are now?
We are extremely keen to be fair to the ex-wife, it's just very hard to know what "fair" looks like. Right now, I have to work full time to keep our family on the road and I paid for my own mat leave out of my own savings.

Any of your own experiences with finance settlements, and how you felt about them would be very welcome

(edited - spell check)

OP, not just a play on your name, but you are my hero! Yes, of course it should have all been sorted out sooner, but bless you for respecting his first wife and kids, and for caring about their financial security even now.. You are a good person, and I hope the universe repays you with many blessings!

Thanks, wildwest. We're not married - he lives with me and we have a child together and are very committed to a shared future, but we are not married.

and - ha! - I am no saint, beachcitygirl!

His pension wont be simple they rarely are. Some will be a post divorce assett

He needs advice from a divorce lawyer and then mediation would be a good option. The date of separation not the later date of divorce is when you look to identify marital assets. It's time to sell the house, divide the proceeds, and ex w moves to a new home.

You sound a very lovely person OP. Personally I think if anything it should be 60/40 in his favour and I would go with that as a start point , as he has paid the bills and mortgage all these years and it sounds like the youngest is 18 quite soon.

If he's happy at 50/50 she's getting a very good deal in my opinion

Thanks, Crikey - that's very helpful. Yes his youngest (with his ex-wife) will be 18 in a few months. His youngest (with me) is 3 so many more years of expenses to come!!
It's so helpful to understand what is fairest to the ex-wife. I'm hoping they can have an amicable discussion since they've been apart for so long, and that both of them will feel they've been treated well

Once his youngest DC reaches 18 his and exw should sell the house and split the equity. Your DH needs to pension share with his exw at point they divorced. He needs to get a pension statement showing what he had at that point and so does his exw. Out of interest for his pension and death in service payout is his exw still down as his beneficiary or are you? Your DH must have felt very very guilty to carry on paying his exw electricity bills years later. If his exw doesn't already have a job she needs to get one. A clean break means after financial settlement they go their own ways and your DH doesn't need to pay his exw anymore. Although I would hope he continues to help his older DC out especially if they are at uni and not working full time. Also I'd hope they could always stay with you and DH during holidays from uni because their Mum might not be able to afford another house. She might need to rent or even get a room in a house share.

Thanks, CaringCarer, you make an interesting point about what they each had at the point of divorce.

I don't think he feels "guilty" as such - it was a no-fault divorce, just one of those things - but obviously he has a huge sense of responsibility to his children from that marriage, and to his ex-wife also. And he loves all his kids!

And yes! Of course we will both continue to financially and emotionally engage with his eldest children - we all get on very well and they are amazing siblings to my little one. We already contribute to uni fees, we see them regularly, they don't live with us but they stay often and they have been so generous about embracing me and their new sibling into their now-extended family.

There is no way we would see the mother of his kids in a rented or shared house, this thread has been very useful for understanding how courts / ex-wives may view the situation but any financial settlement will absolutely see her secure and content. I'm fortunate that my own security is in my own hands, and to a certain extent - little bit feminist - I'd like to see her have her own security in her own hands too. This is absolutely not a thread about getting as much as we can to the detriment of the mother of his children, but more about understanding it from the other person's shoes
x

Please don’t blame your hormones for resenting the madness of things as they stand. It’s internalised misogyny. As is thinking he has a responsibility to a now unrelated able bodied adult because she’s a woman! Does she have a responsibility to him because they used to be married?

Their children are both very nearly adults too. You manage to work while being a parent, a mother. Who owes you?

Actually he does, he owes you a fucking fortune for paying his way while he pays for her.

Unfortunately your DP has been rather foolish and should have settled this a long time ago. By paying his ex-wife's mortgage and bills he's essentially spent the last 7 years proving he has an ability to pay her spousal maintenance and at the same time the ex-wife has carried on being a dependent rather than becoming financially independent and therefore still has needs that she cannot meet herself.

Fair would be a 50/50 split but in reality it's going to be taken into account that he is living with you and he can already meet his needs with the net amount that he currently lives on. His ex-wife will be expected to downsize and work full time but you will probably be looking at a less than ideal split of assets in her favour now of maybe 70/30. There might even be an ongoing requirement to pay spousal maintenance.

When I divorced my ex-wife I made absolutely sure I severed all financial ties as quickly as the law would allow. It was not particularly pleasant to put pressure on her to work more hours and to use her qualifications to get a better paid job to become self sufficient and nor was it particularly pleasant to refuse to stay on her mortgage which meant the DCs had to live in smaller accommodation. However, unfortunately if I had not done so I would be in the position your DP finds himself now, with a dependent adult for whom it is probably too late to become financially independent. In the long run, the kindest thing you can do to the spouse you are divorcing is to force them to be free and independent.

Thanks, FSTraining - really interesting to see the flip side presented so well. And I'm sorry, it sounds like you went through some very stressful times when separating from your ex-wife. I know these things aren't pleasant. Thanks for taking the time to share your personal experiences, especially as they are so different.

What the starting point is 50/50. Adequate housing is really the main thing here, so what equity is there in the house, could she afford to buy him out? Could she afford to take over the mortgage if he gave her all/most equity ? Could she afford to downsize? What other assets are there (pension, savings etc)? Ultimately a private amicable settlement is the best option all around but what that looks like will depend on circumstances

In my case we did a 60/40 split but I house the adult children

No, quite the opposite. My ex-wife is a generally reasonable person. The trouble for her was that it took time for her to realise she could become independent and it felt awkward at times to be "cruel to be kind." Rather than the usual divorce stories, I had slightly odd issues like trying to convince her it was a good idea for me to move out rather than live separately under the same roof for the children.

My situation was very different of course. I suspect we were younger; there were still dependent DCs and there were no new partners on the horizon. The children being adults (and your 3 year old) will work in your DP's favour. However, the rest will not I'm afraid.

Thanks, Momo - as I understand it, even if he gave her all the equity she could not continue to be on the mortgage or buy him out. But selling the house is her plan anyway - I gather she wants to move out of the sticks and closer to town - and it was this that really prompted the separation of finances discussion. I have no clue what her personal finances are like but I assume she has a pension and my DP has a pension too. There's no shared bank account or anything between them, all the bills etc are direct debited from my partner's bank account, just as they always have been.

Looking at what she would need in order to get a mortgage on a decent house is a very sensible starting point for a settlement, thank you!

She does work, btw, and she earns a reasonable amount, but she is not in a profession that is super high earning.

My son divorced a few years ago - although he is a high earner and owned the house out right - he found going to a solicitor was too expensive (altho his ex had a lawyer because she needed that support) - they went to something called Mediation - which costs less than having lawyers for all the agreements. He lost a great deal but at least no legal fees which can be £10,000++ and the result would have been the same..

If the ex wife has earned less due to child raising then she may get more than 50% especially if her housing needs can’t be met otherwise. I stayed in family home (paying mortgage and bills myself) and it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. It’s expensive running a larger home and annoying when things need repaired and it all falls to you. I would love to downsize to something cheaper and low maintenance but currently have uni age children who seem to come home more than expected. Also ask yourself what looks fair to the kids. Yes legally you may be able to argue for x or y, but generally kids don’t want huge disparity between parents. Financial support can go direct to dc at 18 but in reality they still do cost quite alot until fully independent even just visiting during holidays or after graduation while figuring out next steps. Your DP obviously has contractual responsibilities for the mortgage while he remains on it. A lot of people (my ex included) get caught up in how much they can get and often lose sight that you all have to continue being an extended family afterwards.

You realise that your income and assets can be taken into account regarding any financial settlement for the ex?

I'd be hot footing it to a solicitor if I were you. Of course it's all very amicable at the moment - he's the magic money tree. As soon as she needs to start dipping her own hand in her you could be looking at a very different situation.

https://www.sadlercross.co.uk/2021/09/23/will-a-new-partner-affect-my-divorce-settlement/

Ah. Thank you, FatLarrysBanned, no I had not realised that. Thank you

The only plausible explanation as to why you've been ok with it is because he left her for you. Not that it matters, just to those calling you a saint.

@AnneLovesGilbert That 'unrelated able-bodied adult' more than likely fucked up her career and earning potential to raise his children.

Thank you, JJ8765, that's exactly the perspective I was after. Trying to understand what it would look like from the ex-wife's viewpoint. I didn't want to get too bought into my own narrative and I'm very keen to make sure all the kids are treated fairly. It's very helpful to understand what it was like for you afterwards so thank you so much for your openness x

What do the two of them expect would happen if you and he split up and he moved out? He'd have to pay for his own accommodation and bills as well as hers.
Also if he's paying for HER and you're paying for HIM, do either of you have any money left at the end of the month? Do either of you manage to save? (I wonder what the ex wife does...)

How utterly depressing that everyone is telling the OP how stupid and weird the arrangement is. It’s kind, it’s pragmatic, it shows genuine care and respect for the children of the first marriage. And now it needs to be sorted out - which it can be.

Quite unlikely in practice. A series of increasingly rare decisions would have to be made for that and it would be well compensated for until children are 18.

First, a couple where both adults had good careers would have to make a decision for one person to sacrifice their career. This is very unlikely nowadays because of the cost of housing. Normally if one person stays at home it is because they didn't earn very much in the first place.

Second, there would have to be a decision at the point of divorce that one person has more than 50/50 care. This is frequently something the RP imposes on the NRP and not the other way around. They also receive child maintenance as a result of this. In my wife's case we were amicable and I gave her the option of 50/50 or a split of childcare in her favour. She opted for 60% and got more in CM from me than the line of work she was in before children would ever have paid. She would never say she gave up a career, she made a choice to never have one (the higher earner almost never gets to make such a choice in divorce).

Third, having not sacrificed anything in practice, they are get more assets than they could have earned themselves.

The days of "sacrifice" are a relic from the past.