Children don't want to see their Dad 2 years on

[Pushingforwards]

I separated from my husband following an emotionally abusive marriage. My children sadly bore the brunt of some of this, he would shout at them, call them names and shut them outside to scare them.

I summoned every once of courage to leave. Since then he has tried to be calmer and there are no abusive behaviours towards the kids. There are moments of irritation towards them but nothing that is concerning.

They are 12 and 10.

The kids see him every other weekend and do another overnight every other Thursday. They really don't want to go. I think it's the vibe he gives off, despite now being Disney Dad (trying to make up for the wrongs of the past) he is still highly strung. They make it clear to him they don't want to be there but he plays the sickening pathetic card, "don't you want to see Daddy, Daddy is sad".

They keep saying I've managed to get myself into a place where I don't have to see him but they do. They don't want his time or anything from him.

They ask how much longer they have to see him for. My understanding is that I need to encourage the relationship at their ages.

At what age can they stop this charade?

They are both of an age where if they refuse contact and their father goes to court to get it, their wishes will be taken into account. That doesn't mean they will be allowed to go no contact, but they will be heard. It's more likely that the 12 year old will be allowed to cut off contact than the 10 year old, which is very unfair but that's how it is.

It sounds as if you have been open with them without alienating them from their dad. Keep that up and have a frank conversation with them about the timelines for what they want. It's up to him to mend his relationship with them, not up to you or them. The fact that he's using emotional blackmail means he isn't yet in a position to take responsibility for his behaviour and the effect it's had on them, so he has some work to do.

Sorry @Pushingforwards same here, kids dont enjoy time there but he plays the victim and now trying to do nice things with kids almost in a competition with me for who is nicest parent, while still emotionally abusing them (arguments over little things, endless speeches...), lying, gaslighting and creating confusion to stress me out and control me in some way.
I keep hearing my kids 16 and 13 should decide what to do but it ain't that simple. When married under same roof kids couldn't decide to just cut one parent off, and when dealing with a narc these dramatic big moves to remove their narc supply can trigger them to a dangerous point...
Curious to hear what others say.

Thank you so much for your replies.

It isn't easy this. Sometimes I question whether I should have left and put them in this position. However, I had no choice, it was too damaging and domestic abuse services and the school also involved.

Things moved on a little, they had to meet his girlfriend recently. He was on a dating site immediately and found a new girlfriend within weeks. I worry that on his weekends this will be their new normal. So much change for them. I'm just desperate to maintain a safe, consistent and calm space for them.

I'm curious to hear from others on how they dealt with the introduction of a new girlfriend as well as making reluctant kids go to the other parents.

It is very difficult with emotional abuse, particularly narcissistic.

Your children - esp thr 12yr old - are of an age where their wishes will be taken into account by a court, and from 14, their wishes are definitive.

Having been there - and being so broken myself that I could not summon up the courage to refuse to send unwilling dcs to exh - I now really, really wish I had been braver earlier. At 14 they made their own choices; DD (now 17) still sees her dad, DS (15) has no contact.

Legal advice at age 13 was that I have a duty to protect the children for their emotional wellbeing and that if I continued to send the dcs to somewhere they were unhappy and frightened, I would have a hard time defending that to social services.

Having said that, the process of stopping contact was totally awful (exh could not accept it). So I'd have a chat with a solicitor first, clarify the legal position and then act. That knowledge gives you strength, which you may need.

Good luck.

Is there a court order in place for the current contact arrangements?

I recently spoke to a family law solicitor to find out legally who has what rights when it comes to child contact and was told that with no court order in place then I could just say no and that they didn’t need to be made available for contact if that’s what I chose. It would then be up to Dad to go through the courts for access. Children of all ages are spoken to by someone from CAFCASS so they all get to have an opinion in what they would like.
Just wanted to tell you what I was advised as it might useful to know that you are not obliged to continue contact if you feel it’s not in the children’s best interests. I would say at 10 and 12 they got a good idea on what they want.
Maybe speak to the children and see how often they would like to see him and then go from there. If they say not at all then tell your ex that they no longer want contact.

Thanks ever so much for your replies. This is helpful.

I am a little scared of my ex, he can be angry if he does not get his way. He is pushy and overpowering. He will either ignore the children's resistance to see him or bombard them with reasons why they are wrong and they should see him. He simply won't take no for an answer. The children say they have to make him happy to prevent the tension.

I don't think they would be brave enough to go against him. If I spoke to him he would accuse me of manipulation.

I feel a bit stuck.

I completely understand- I was you.

really suggest seeing a solicitor for an hour if you can, who will explain the position (what Shinebright says, basically). That will help give you the confidence to act in their best interest, knowing that right, and the law, are on your and thr children’s side.

he may kick off, he probably will, but he cannot actually do anything. If you’ve been controlled for a long time, you keep feeling afraid for ages, I know. But it is really all about the children’s best interests.

Thank you so much for this.

My daughter is just getting so upset going there. Crying, begging not to go. When she is there she has to put on a bit of an act so as to prevent him shouting and getting angry with her. So he thinks it's all hunky dory and it clearly isn't. It breaks my heart so much.

Honestly, next time, don’t send her. Let him kick off. He cannnot hurt you. He can apply to court if he wants.

which he is unlikely to do, and if he does, by the time it actually comes to a hearing, DD will be 13 and court will not act against her wishes.

don’t send her, you must protect her.

My husband and I have been separated just over 2 years now. I initiated the split after years of emotional abuse, towards me and the children (particularly our eldest son, now aged 14). Ex is trying a lot more with the kids but they struggle with it and often don't want to stay with him. We have an informal agreement, after meditation, that he has them every other weekend from Saturday morning through to Sunday lunchtime and then he sees them once midweek (but not overnight). To begin with our eldest hated it, would scream/shout/cry and often refuse to go. I never tried to make him, I would encourage contact but no more. I always got blamed by ex for this and he would play the victim to the children telling them awful lies about me. Two years on our eldest is a bit happier with staying most times, I think mainly because his Dad let's him play 18 rated computer games, watch TV programmes I wouldn't allow, stay up late, eat junk... Our middle child (age 10) now is really struggling with overnights (she's happy to go for the day but doesn't want to stay away from home) . She will sob and physically cling to me with all her strength begging not to go. I refuse to drag her out of the house like that. Ex has tried to prise her off me and get her out to his car on one occasion but it was awful and he hasn't done that since. Instead he tries to negotiate with her and gives the sob story of how sad she is making him, why is she being unfair to him, no one thinks of his needs... Our youngest (7) is happy to go one week, doesn't want to go the next. He copes ok with it whilst they are thete but is very angry with me when he gets back, I think he blames me for 'making' him go.

It is so hard when it is like this. If either of your children don't want to go I would not force them. You can encourage contact without forcing it and it is his responsibility to repair his relationship with them. If he took it to court, by the time the case was heard your children will be older and hopefully the judge would listen to their needs and wants more.