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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Form E queries

13 replies

NeedSleepNow · 14/08/2023 21:56

Ex and I completed form Es for mediation a couple of months ago. I took a long time over mine completing it thoroughly, included everything that I should have done and lots of supporting information, he just did a half arsed job. Accounts missing, payslips for the wrong time period, bank statements for wrong amount of months, pensions missed off, mixing up gross/net figures, amounts on bank statements different to figures stated on form E.... The list of mistakes went on and on. He basically rushed it and then spent a couple of months moaning that I was taking too long over mine.

The mediator was not concerned in the slightest by the number of errors on his form. She tried to get us to work out a settlement and told him to send over the correct statements after mediation (he still needs to send a few bits over and has finally now agreed to provide them to me this week).

Once he has sent those, would you just try to agree a settlement to avoid dragging it out further and expensive court costs, would you go back to mediation when the last few sessions have been useless, go through a solicitor getting them to go through his form E with a fine tooth comb looking for issues and querying them or would you go straight to court?

Our pensions are very similar in value, he has £2-3k savings, I have £12k debt, he has £4k debt, the house is the only real asset with £200k equity. Our 3 children live with me and he has them EOW, he earns double what I do and I suspect he is planning to move in with his new partner.

I am assuming that we will sell the house and I will then try to buy a shared ownership property for me and the children as I can't get a mortgage to buy on my own as I don't earn enough and renting is too expensive where I live.

I've been through all of his bank statements, figures etc on his form e and my only real query is relating to money moving from his savings accounts to his credit card (he has paid £8k to his credit card this year but claims he can't afford even £50 towards school unifirm for the kids), and the amount he said he owed on his credit card was not a lot but then statements show large payments to it. I suspect he is doing all of his extravagant spending, weekends away with his partner on his credit card and then paying it off so that I can't see what the money goes on as form E only asks for the current credit card balance and no statements. Would you just let that go and try to agree a settlement so that the divorce can go through and the house sold ASAP (I have had so many issues with him turning up unannounced , letting himself in, that I am now at the stage where I just need a fresh start in a home that is mine not his).

OP posts:
Elektra1 · 15/08/2023 06:47

You should ask for his credit card statements as that shows the true nature of his spending.

millymollymoomoo · 15/08/2023 07:14

These are small amounts tbh ( I know they are big to you) but a court won’t argue over a few k here and there and it will cost you waaayyy more to decay and drag this to courts

You’d be best to try to negotiate on the % split of the house unless you believe there is something really material missing.
how far apart are you in settlement proposals ?

bevvy81 · 15/08/2023 09:06

Are you amicable? Could you sit down together and agree a financial split? That's the ideal scenario rather than costly solicitors and court but I appreciate for many, that's not an option. If you could amicably agree you can go down the consent order route - saving time & money. If not - and he's concealing money, defo get a solicitor to scrutinise form E & associated docs to ensure you get what you deserve! Good luck

Original poster
NeedSleepNow · 15/08/2023 09:48

Elektra1 · 15/08/2023 06:47

You should ask for his credit card statements as that shows the true nature of his spending.

The problem is that form E only asks for the balance on credit cards not for statements from them so I know he'll refuse

OP posts:
Original poster
NeedSleepNow · 15/08/2023 09:54

bevvy81 · 15/08/2023 09:06

Are you amicable? Could you sit down together and agree a financial split? That's the ideal scenario rather than costly solicitors and court but I appreciate for many, that's not an option. If you could amicably agree you can go down the consent order route - saving time & money. If not - and he's concealing money, defo get a solicitor to scrutinise form E & associated docs to ensure you get what you deserve! Good luck

We're amicable until I disagree with him on something then he gets angry and impossible to talk.

I think he may well be hiding a few accounts or have transferred money out to family when we first separated (2 years ago), but amounts would most likely be in the region of 5-10k so not massive amounts so my gut feeling is that it would cost a lot more to go to court than I would gain.

He wants a 50/50 split of the house, I keep my debt, he keeps his savings, no pension sharing but I feel 60/40 split of the house would be fairer as I need to house the children full time and my mortgage borrowing capacity is a lower than his.

OP posts:
bevvy81 · 15/08/2023 10:57

Defo go for 60% then. You can try and negotiate with him that if agrees then you won't go for a pension sharing order or claim on his savings & other assets. You are right in that the costs of fighting it via courts will probably outweigh what you'd gain. If he can just 'get' that it's going to be much less hassle & expense if you can agree a fair split via consent order, everyone wins! I got 60% equity - judge deemed it fair as part of consent order process. I have the kids 100% of the time & thus needed more equity to suitably house the kids. Your ex needs to put the kids first, the equity isn't for you, it's so they can live in a suitable home.

Appleofmyeye2023 · 15/08/2023 15:17

Comes down to maths
a solicitor will cost you £200+ each per hour for every minute they’re going over with a fine tooth comb or sitting in a room watching you haggle it out. Unless you think your settlment would change by more than a £1000 or so, I’d say th stress, delays and costs won’t make it worth it,
But if you think he is committing fraud and contempt of court by falsifying the records he signs for (states this all over forms before you sign ) then you should push back and refuse to sign yourself until you are satisfied he’s proven his assets. Do NOT agree to any fancial order before he has signed- why the hell would a solicitor advise this 🤦‍♀️jeez, I wouldn’t have envy state to negotiate without that being done first.

Mumof3confused · 15/08/2023 17:58

You have the upper hand in some ways, as he’s probably desperate to move on if he has a new partner.

Have you consulted with a solicitor at all? I think you should do that and have them write to him, demanding copies of credit card statements and a mortgage capacity report. Have them say that unless he does this you will have no choice but to issue proceedings. You only really need a junior solicitor at this stage. I would also have a conversation (many offer a free initial session) and ask them what a likely split would be in your situation. If he only has them on weekends he only ‘needs’ a small flat.

Elektra1 · 15/08/2023 19:12

@NeedSleepNow "
The problem is that form E only asks for the balance on credit cards not for statements from them so I know he'll refuse"

I'm getting divorced. Most of my spouse's spending is done on a credit card. So we asked for those statements as otherwise wouldn't have a complete financial picture. We got them. Seems a reasonable request to me.

If you don't want to do that, you could look at what his monthly credit card payments were pre-split and compare with post-split and conclude that he's spending a lot more post-split, though you won't be able to see if he's blowing it on "fun".

Original poster
NeedSleepNow · 15/08/2023 21:19

Elektra1 · 15/08/2023 19:12

@NeedSleepNow "
The problem is that form E only asks for the balance on credit cards not for statements from them so I know he'll refuse"

I'm getting divorced. Most of my spouse's spending is done on a credit card. So we asked for those statements as otherwise wouldn't have a complete financial picture. We got them. Seems a reasonable request to me.

If you don't want to do that, you could look at what his monthly credit card payments were pre-split and compare with post-split and conclude that he's spending a lot more post-split, though you won't be able to see if he's blowing it on "fun".

I'm certain he's using it to pay for all of his 'fun' activities. I know he is often out with his girlfriend for meals, nights away, trips to the theatre etc but very little of that comes out of his current accounts.

OP posts:
Elektra1 · 16/08/2023 07:07

Ask for the credit card statements then and say you need to see them since he's clearly spending a lot more on that card now and you don't have an accurate overview of finances and spending without them. It is going to be relevant to the sections 3 and 4 of the form anyway as his spending patterns are relevant to his capital "needs".

millymollymoomoo · 16/08/2023 09:07

You run the risk here of spending a lot of time, money and energy back and forth and asking for information which is not forthcoming and likely to be stalled and quite frankly won’t make material difference to your outcome

you have 200k equity to split, of which you are both arguing over 20k variance 60% equals 120k vs 100k for 50%)

your argument needs solely to rely on your needs- you need more based on

housing needs of children where they predominantly reside
your earnings ( inc cms) and mortgage capacity
his earnings and mortgage capacity

thats it
arguing over spending and credit card statements is imo a red herring

Original poster
NeedSleepNow · 16/08/2023 14:36

millymollymoomoo · 16/08/2023 09:07

You run the risk here of spending a lot of time, money and energy back and forth and asking for information which is not forthcoming and likely to be stalled and quite frankly won’t make material difference to your outcome

you have 200k equity to split, of which you are both arguing over 20k variance 60% equals 120k vs 100k for 50%)

your argument needs solely to rely on your needs- you need more based on

housing needs of children where they predominantly reside
your earnings ( inc cms) and mortgage capacity
his earnings and mortgage capacity

thats it
arguing over spending and credit card statements is imo a red herring

Thank you, I think you are right. It will boil down to the split of equity from the house, and 20k can easily be used up on solicitor's fees. I'm keen to get it all sorted ASAP, as soon as we have our financial order sorted I can apply for the final order and move on

OP posts:
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