advice on the next step to take

[ShylaA040404]

Hi everyone. I am 37F married to my husband 43M for 13 years, together for 17. I am in need of advice about my situation and am hoping people can offer their experience and thoughts. Apologize in advance for the very long post.

We have three children that are all under 10. My husband and I met when we were both fairly young. We both work full time and are on a good track career wise. He suffers from depression which was diagnosed when he was a young teenager, but it typically is well controlled. I would say the entire time we have been together there have maybe been 5-6 bouts of severe depression which were not too lengthy, although very personally hard for him and for me.

We had our kids fairly close together such that when we had our youngest son our oldest was not even four yet. During the time I was pregnant with our youngest and after I had him we were not having sex very often. As my husband was very unhappy about this, according to him, it precipitated a very severe depressive episode. Because of this and because we were both generally unhappy, after our son was born we went to marriage counseling for a few years and things seemed to improve, especially during the pandemic. Our kids are older now and there is more time for intimacy and to spend time with each other. However, for the past couple of months or so my husband has been completely checked out of parenting and our marriage and really our lives altogether. The kids and I function as a four person team and my husband is somewhat of a loner. We have maintained an active sex life because through counseling I was able to learn how important this is to him. Nonetheless, my husband has once again entered a major depressive episode for which he is currently in outpatient therapy and on medicine.

He tells me that our marriage, and only our marriage, is causing his depression. That no matter what he cannot be happy with me because we lack the "sexual connection" that he desires. That the only thing that can pull him out of his depression is this "sexual connection" with someone else, but he is 100% sure he can't find it with me. He is resentful of the times when our kids were young and I did not make time for him and cannot get over that. He says that we are very compatible in a lot of ways but he just can't be happy in our marriage. He doesn't even necessarily want to get divorced right now, he just wants to go have sex with other people and find this "connection" he is so desperately seeking as it is the only thing (in his mind) that can pull him out of his depression.

From my end (and I have expressed all of this to him), I don't want to end the relationship. I love him and care about him and think he is having a midlife crisis and depressive episode and desperately seeking "something". It is hard for me to take him seriously because depending on a marriage or sex with other women to cure depression doesn't work. He refuses to increase his meds or do any more serious therapy because again, he is 100% sure our marriage is the cause and only cause. I should also mention that he views divorce and our potential relationship if we get divorced in a way that is unrealistic, such as saying that he will always be there for me no matter what and hopes that we can be together as a family (even though divorced) a lot and that divorce will make the relationship between he and I better and stronger.

I'm at a loss of what to do. I am not ready to give up on our marriage, although I acknowledge it might very well be a hopeless situation. We have talked about it a lot, and he is considering whether he can actually be present in our marriage and give it a real try to see if it will work so we don't have to give up the life that we have built together. While we are working through that, I wanted to see if anyone has been in a similar situation and has any advice. Much appreciated!

That's a difficult one to advise on. Do your husbands counsellors agree with his prognosis of sexual connection to help him?

He obviously feels an unfulfilled desire and yearning. But exploring that, essentially dissolves the marriage.

I can understand why you don't want to give up. There must be other routes to try first like different medication or hobbies etc.

Has he ever been unfaithful?

What’s the next step? Sit down and work out a separation/divorce.
This is no way to live the next 40 years of your life.
Nor is it healthy for your children to witness this drama.
The adrenaline rush of lust is short lived but easy could last 12+months.
He doesn’t want to be with you no matter what you want, so move forward; paper pen and calculator all assets/furnishing/pets split.

No, no one (his counsellors nor people he is confiding in like his brother) agrees with the idea that "sexual connection" will help his depression. In fact, his counsellor wanted him to be in inpatient therapy for the depression but he won't do that.

I have at one point suggested maybe he just focus on himself to try and pull himself out of the depression, but right now he is not open to that. He keeps telling me he might be making a mistake but maybe he needs to learn the hard way.

He has not been unfaithful that I know of. Right now, he can barely get up in the morning and function throughout the day, so it would be surprising to me if he were having any sort of affair, but its definitely always possible.

I do appreciate your advice and perspective. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I appreciate this advice, even though I don't feel ready to face it. I will say, we do not have any discussion about any of this around our children so although they may notice that their father is deeply depressed, it is important to both of us that they not witness any discussion related to our relationship. And I do plan to contact an attorney no matter what to be prepared and to protect myself.

@ShylaA040404 so the children are not seeing healthy discussion between the two of you. they are not seeing a healthy father (unable to participate fully in activities of daily living).
what they are seeing is a fake relationship.
so what do you think they are learning from this dysfunction?

the children seeing proper back and forth disagreements and compromise and moving forward is healthy and a skill they need to learn for family and work life.

I agree the situation is not ideal for anyone, including my children. However, I am not sure there is really a short term upside in terms of my children learning anything healthy from what is going on between their father and I. I worry if we do end up getting divorced that their father will end up abandoning them and I'm not sure what skills it will teach them to not have him a part of their life but I guess I will cross that bridge when we get there.

Unfortunately depression and mid life crises can lead some people to somewhat dodgy decisions. However, life can end up better as a result sometimes after the fallout, although i appreciate it wont seem like that now.

Sad as it is, it sounds like maybe your husband didnt have enough sexual experiences with other women when he was younger and now thinks he may have missed out on some amazing part of life?

Reality is, yes you can have a better sexual connection with some people than others but im not sure anyone ever gets the full package with hot sexual chemistry and all the other ingredients for a good relationship. And sexual chemistry can fade or be dependent on tiredness etc.

You are obviously trying to support your husband but the reality is that if his current outlook is not a temporary side effect of the depression that his beliefs are hurting you and you are not being properly valued here.

Having been in a relationship with someone with depression i think when they've come out of it before, you can think it's just the depression, they will get back to their normal self.

Unfortunately though i think depression can and does sometimes lead people to blame their partners for everything, and it sound like there is a theme of him blaming you for his problems. If you weren't with him, to be honest, hard as it sounds, you may feel a weight has been lifted.

I guess you may want to weigh up your options. What are the choices? A temporary break or separation where he might go have an affair and may or may not come back? Deciding to have an open relationship on both sides? Or hoping this thing goes away? If so, how long are you prepared to give it? Maybe you need to go see a therapist on your own to figure out how you really feel and what you really want. Good luck.

Can you live separately - can you afford two properties.
Surely if he moves out he has time to sort himself out. Although of course he maintains his share of parenting.
Over time you can decide what is best without him having excuses for his behaviour.

Thanks so much for your response, what you are saying resonates very much with me. I have suggested to him at this point that he take some time to be alone away from our home and family and try and get himself in a somewhat decent headspace. It is shocking to me that he thinks he is in the right frame of mind to make huge life decisions when he can't get out of bed. My hope is that if he goes somewhere he can do some work on himself and come back a rational person. I do realize I'm probably kidding myself with this.

I think for me the viable options are: he takes time to himself or we work together on our marriage or we get permanently separated/divorced. I am not open to him seeing other people and at this point I have no desire to do so. I probably should take time to see a therapist myself. If I'm being honest, my husband is talking to two therapists a week now and it is doing zero for him so I am a bit down on therapy right now if that makes sense.

I am not necessarily opposed to him moving out to an apartment which we could afford if he gets a small one somewhere near us. I just am not open to him dating other people while he does that. I am honestly open to most things that I feel would be productive towards working on our relationship or helping him feel better, just not him seeing other people.

Jeez, that’s helpful.
look no parent is bloody perfect. And you’ve led a very sheltered life if you think some serious shit doesn’t happen in a lot of people’s life’s especially to do with mental health issues. We all make mistakes and fail, but we mostly get it overall right. There is no abuse going on here. . There is a dad in mental health crisis and a mum whose doing her best to hold the shit together in difficult and frankly unreasonable circumstances. Their difficulties are not some “ life lesson” for their children to be party to . Oh yes, really sensible talking about their sex life in front of the kids so they can see “ healthy back and forth discussion” ffs 🤦‍♀️🤯

the op is having a completely shit time - when dealing with a partner with mental health issues a lot of complex emotions come into play: hope (That he’ll recover and get back to how it was) resentment, loneliness, rejection, guilt ( for feeling some of previous), and a massive sense of duty/ obligation to her vows of “ in sickness and health), etc.

give the women a bloody break here, and stop victim blaming.

I’ve heard it all. Sounds to me like he is using his depression as a get out of jail card to go off and bang anyone he wants with his wife’s permission . What an utter piss take.
My soon to be ex H blamed his porn addiction on depression and said his counsellor said that me starting a job wfh would have ‘set him back’ because he couldn’t be well , for want of a better word, knocking one out to porn whilst I was working from my home office. Combined with his excessive boozing and years of my treading on eggshells , that was the beginning of the end.
Please don’t pander to this nonsense OP, if he wants sexual freedom , let him have it, but he goes and doesn’t get to come back.

I was with my ex for 30 years, last 20 of those he had a severe and enduring mental illness. It took me 20 years to leave
Looking back I think that “ hope” is the one emotion that immobilises us and prevents us making decisions that we ought. I used to think hope was a rather jolly little thing, but I’ve come to realise it’s the human instinct of self preservation that stops us despairing and giving up on life- a survival tactic. But it’s nasty little side effect is that it makes us normalise shit we shouldn’t, like the frog boiling in the pot, we don’t realise how much we absorb and accept unreasonable behaviour until it’s too late.

from what I’m reading you are still hoping the magic fairies ( or mental health services) will fix your husband and your relationship will go back to how it was? Im reading you stating stuff about his request for open marriage as if this isn’t entirely unreasonable of him, it saddens you, you aren’t happy, but you’re considering it as a way of life
STOP. it is not normal, it is not going to be possible without immense impact on you. You are being rejected by the person you trusted most, and that is incredibly damaging mentally. You cannot subject yourself to this for any period of time- you will become mentally ill yourself.

the statistics, op, aren’t good. 1 in 2 carers for people with severe mental illness develop mental illness themselves. For carers who are in partnerships with the ill person the rates are higher, and relationships break down at very high levels. Im testament to that- 20 years in marriage with unreasonable behaviour and 3 years post divorce and im still recovering my own mental health

think hard about the hold “ hope”: has over you. Think hard about what your life, contentment, stability with be like in 5 years, in 10 years, when you’re 60 or 70 in both scenarios of splitting up vs staying. Look at what future would be like re child custody, financial agreements ( use link to ADVICE NOW guides at top of this board) to figure out that version of your potential future vs the one you’ll have in staying.

I could not even contemplate divorcing or separating until I faced down what the future as a divorced women would be, only once I could visualise it, accept the negatives, figure it wasn’t at scary as I thought, start to visualise where and how I’d live etc was I then ready to make the final decision and compare it to the life I had. Only then could I switch “ hope”: from hanging onto the past, to hope in the new future and take me through the difficult period of change.

@ShylaA040404 i know what you mean re scepticism re therapy but it may be worth giving it a shot. I think when you are with someone with depression it can become mostly about your partner's feelings and your own can be forgotten so getting truly in touch with how you feel may help guide you on what to do.

It might also be worth trying to find out how long your husband has felt this way as if it is a long time, it may be unlikely his feelings will change and that may bring you some clarity. If he says years, it puts a different light on it than it being a blip or part of the depression.

It does sound like it may be a deal breaker as you don't feel the same way as him and dont want to see other people.

Whatever happens or you decide, you will get through it.

Some if these comments are weird. OP, he us being extraordinarily selfish and manipulative. Of course it's bollocks that sex with other people won't "cure" his depression. And if he's got 2 therapists and a group of family/friends all telling him that and he's not listening, it's obvious that he is 100% uninterested in dealing with his depression, mental health or relationship.

I think its telling that you mention being scared he woukd abandon the dc. Unfortunately, selfish self absorbed men like this probably will do so. But be honest... is the life they are leading with him that much better? It must be very confusing.

I appreciate you aren't quite ready to LTB but you need to start reframing this in your head. Stop thinking about what you should do to solve his problems, how you can change him etc and start thinking about how HE is letting you down and how HE is doing nothing to solve this issue.

And as for therapy- it's only as good ad the effort the person seeking therapy puts in. He clearly isn't putting in any effort. Doesn't mean therapy won't work for you if you are willing to do the work.

It doesn't sound like he's getting much out of the counselling. I started counselling 3 weeks ago and if I didn't believe what she was saying to me I don't really think there would be any point in continuing

Well he's not getting much from counselling because he's not engaging with it. They think he should be an inpatient and change meds. He is fixated with this sex with others idea.

I would be pushing back at any blame on you for not wanting sex with young children. You are not responsible for his mental health and happiness.

Your message and advice rings so true, especially what you are saying about hope. I am definitely not considering having an open marriage, it is not something that is acceptable to me. So if that is what my husband decides he can't live without, we will definitely divorce. The thing I struggle with, and I do think "hope" is involved, is that he is in the middle of a severe bout with mental illness and I don't think he is in his right mind. I do think I want to give it a reasonable amount of time to see if he will come out of it. Certainly, if he wasn't severely depressed and he came to me and said this I would take it a completely different way. Does that make sense? Regardless your message has given me a lot to think about and I very much appreciate it.

I do know deep down that you are 100% right. I think part of this process of engaging with people is to help me to come to terms with everything myself. And it really is one of the hardest things I have ever dealt with. I appreciate your advice.

You are right and this is the crux of the problem with him. He is essentially telling me his entire happiness and well being is being destroyed by this lack of intense sexual connection with me and his inability (due to our marriage) to pursue that with others. I think that line of thinking is delusional. He has made it his reality.