Mediation child arrangements meeting today!

NottodaySatann · 2023-06-21T07:02:20+00:00

I need some quick advice. Ex was extremely abusive to me during marriage. We’ve tried mediation before for finances and child arrangements but he cancelled it all because his new girlfriend hurt our child on purpose and I had to revoke access. He’s made this whole process as horrific as possible and is financially crippling me everyday. Ex hasn’t seen child in 5 months since his gf hurt our child. My offer is going to be (always has been) a visitation centre for my son and ex (so that the new girlfriend isn’t around and can’t hurt my child again). Or seeing our child in my garden (again to ensure my child is safe). My ex doesn’t believe our child even though they have said the events over and over again and have never said an adult has hurt them before. I’m only willing to compromise on an offer as long as my child is safe and he’s not out of my sight for the moment. I don’t think I can trust my ex with our child as he’s believing a woman he’s know for 8 months over our kid. Are my offers too strict? Will I be seen as controlling or in a negative light by the courts when we inevitably go there (I don’t think mediation is going to work as my ex is not willing to compromise and just want my child at his place or at a park where I’m not allowed to know the location of - also his gf could be there)

millymollymoomoo · 21/06/2023 09:48

Think it depends on how she hurt him
ie was it deliberate act and you suspect abuse, or was it more an accident where you feel she was negligent, or actually was it genuine accident

in reality a contact centre isn’t a great environment for context and the aim will always be to work towards unsupervised access and work out what needs to happen to get to that ( unless proven genuine risk to child of abuse)

ultimately your ex does have a right to see his child without you controlling the terms ( and this Is completely dependent on point above)

raysan · 21/06/2023 09:58

@NottodaySatann I am at the end of mediation with my ex who was emotionally abusive and a bully. He played along until it got to the end, and now is threatening, withdrawing from the process, and hence pulling me back into his drama. In short - mediation is likely not to be for you but if you think there is a small chance it could work and you could both compromise, then maybe you save yourselves thousands and lots of adversarial arguments.

Do you have a police report about the incident or tell the school? If not, it would be your word against his. Kids do lie, so I have some sympathy for your ex believing his new gf (since he didn't witness it). Of course child abuse happens and has to be prevented, so his position of having your DC alone again with his gf is entirely unreasonable.

Original poster

NottodaySatann · 21/06/2023 09:59

millymollymoomoo · 21/06/2023 09:48

Think it depends on how she hurt him
ie was it deliberate act and you suspect abuse, or was it more an accident where you feel she was negligent, or actually was it genuine accident

in reality a contact centre isn’t a great environment for context and the aim will always be to work towards unsupervised access and work out what needs to happen to get to that ( unless proven genuine risk to child of abuse)

ultimately your ex does have a right to see his child without you controlling the terms ( and this Is completely dependent on point above)

It was on purpose. My child told me it was and that she said shut the f up afterwards. My child ran off and cried.

I do suspect abuse on her part but the fact his dad doesn’t believe our child makes me worry what she could get away with. If a contact centre isn’t ideal, I have no idea what other options there are to protect my child.

OP posts:

Original poster

NottodaySatann · 21/06/2023 10:04

raysan · 21/06/2023 09:58

@NottodaySatann I am at the end of mediation with my ex who was emotionally abusive and a bully. He played along until it got to the end, and now is threatening, withdrawing from the process, and hence pulling me back into his drama. In short - mediation is likely not to be for you but if you think there is a small chance it could work and you could both compromise, then maybe you save yourselves thousands and lots of adversarial arguments.

Do you have a police report about the incident or tell the school? If not, it would be your word against his. Kids do lie, so I have some sympathy for your ex believing his new gf (since he didn't witness it). Of course child abuse happens and has to be prevented, so his position of having your DC alone again with his gf is entirely unreasonable.

Oh I really feel for you too. This is very much it. I have a police report against the abuse I suffered and social services have been involved regarding this and another incident with my ex. My child is young so isn’t at school and is only just starting nursery (late in age) but I’ve recorded my child saying it, they even talk about it now and have never wavered with their story. I know kids lie, it’s hard even for me but because they’ve told the same story for months and never changed and also because they’ve never lied about really, anything, it does make me think it happened. Does that make sense? Not trying to go against your advice!

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LemonTT · 21/06/2023 16:31

Forget about mediation. It is not remotely the right solution.

It is really important you report the abuse against your child. To not do so risks the child being given over to the custody of someone who hurt them, if you were incapacitated or not around.

However you stated originally that she was abusive and had hurt your child. Then said you suspect it.

you need this investigated and resolved.

Raindropsarefallingheavily · 21/06/2023 16:35

Unless you have a police report about dc and the gf incident please do not offer up a recording of your dc speaking about it. You place you in a dangerous position.. As in you coerced dc and are using dc against ex to back up YOUR case of abuse... Speak to the police op. ASAP.

millymollymoomoo · 21/06/2023 17:30

I really don’t wa t to make light of this but also be aware that children can ‘elaborate a bit’
eg my own child had told his dad ( my husband at the time ) that I hit him ( I didn’t ) on purpose, when actually I’d lunged to grab him to stop him falling as example. When dad said ( in my company) oh was it an accident he then said no mummy did it on purpose.
im Not saying your child is not to be believed, nor an i saying don’t take steps to keep him safe but sometimes what they say is quite literal

Original poster

NottodaySatann · 21/06/2023 21:00

LemonTT · 21/06/2023 16:31

Forget about mediation. It is not remotely the right solution.

It is really important you report the abuse against your child. To not do so risks the child being given over to the custody of someone who hurt them, if you were incapacitated or not around.

However you stated originally that she was abusive and had hurt your child. Then said you suspect it.

you need this investigated and resolved.

Sorry if there’s confusion, my child said it happened and I believe them. It has been investigated by social services but I’m lodging a complaint against them as it’s been horrific.

OP posts:

Original poster

NottodaySatann · 21/06/2023 21:01

Raindropsarefallingheavily · 21/06/2023 16:35

Unless you have a police report about dc and the gf incident please do not offer up a recording of your dc speaking about it. You place you in a dangerous position.. As in you coerced dc and are using dc against ex to back up YOUR case of abuse... Speak to the police op. ASAP.

It’s been reported to social services does that make a difference?

also, why shouldn’t I record the conversations with my child? I’m so confused, I thought that would be the right thing to do, do I still speak to the police about i (I’ve spoken to them about my abuse and they know social services have been involved and haven’t asked to be more involved in the child side of things)

OP posts:

Original poster

NottodaySatann · 21/06/2023 21:04

millymollymoomoo · 21/06/2023 17:30

I really don’t wa t to make light of this but also be aware that children can ‘elaborate a bit’
eg my own child had told his dad ( my husband at the time ) that I hit him ( I didn’t ) on purpose, when actually I’d lunged to grab him to stop him falling as example. When dad said ( in my company) oh was it an accident he then said no mummy did it on purpose.
im Not saying your child is not to be believed, nor an i saying don’t take steps to keep him safe but sometimes what they say is quite literal

I totally get you. I was wary at first. I didn’t take visitation away straight away but my child seems to always say things as they are. For instance, children have hurt them and they’ve been able to talk about the instances in-depth and I know they’re telling the truth because I was there. That’s really all I’ve got to go off if I’m honest but also, I just want to protect my child, do you know what I mean? I took none of the steps lightly, it’s just a horrible mess though.

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Raindropsarefallingheavily · 21/06/2023 21:26

It's called suggestive questioning......such things need professionals involved...
Speak to the police. Your dd will be spoken to in a very appropriate way. You really need it on police file. Not one you created. Even with the best of intentions.. Don't mention it or you weaken your dd's potential evidence..

OakTreex · 21/06/2023 21:41

What @Raindropsarefallingheavily says is correct. The court arena (circus) is a strange beast and you should not mention recordings at all.

Also, please do not offer contact supervised by yourself to a man who was abusive towards you. If you see this heading for court and you would intend to raise his abusive behaviour towards you then, you weaken your argument. I don't agree, but you open yourself up to the following criticisms: you lied about him being abusive, if he was, why were you offering to be alone with him? Or, you can't protect your child from witnessing abuse because you were happy to be present with a man who is abusive towards you in front of child.

The things that seem logical to us aren't logical in court. And I'm not saying I agree with either of those arguments, but fact is your offer of being there in your garden is not one that will stand you in good stead if you bring up in court he needs supervision.

You should offer supervised in a centre or by a suitable third party and not with you involved if there has been past abuse, for the above reasons.

Original poster

NottodaySatann · 21/06/2023 22:02

Raindropsarefallingheavily · 21/06/2023 21:26

It's called suggestive questioning......such things need professionals involved...
Speak to the police. Your dd will be spoken to in a very appropriate way. You really need it on police file. Not one you created. Even with the best of intentions.. Don't mention it or you weaken your dd's potential evidence..

Wow thank you. I had no idea. I genuinely thought I was doing the right thing and gathering evidence. I’ll speak to the police about this. Thank tou

OP posts:

Original poster

NottodaySatann · 21/06/2023 22:08

OakTreex · 21/06/2023 21:41

What @Raindropsarefallingheavily says is correct. The court arena (circus) is a strange beast and you should not mention recordings at all.

Also, please do not offer contact supervised by yourself to a man who was abusive towards you. If you see this heading for court and you would intend to raise his abusive behaviour towards you then, you weaken your argument. I don't agree, but you open yourself up to the following criticisms: you lied about him being abusive, if he was, why were you offering to be alone with him? Or, you can't protect your child from witnessing abuse because you were happy to be present with a man who is abusive towards you in front of child.

The things that seem logical to us aren't logical in court. And I'm not saying I agree with either of those arguments, but fact is your offer of being there in your garden is not one that will stand you in good stead if you bring up in court he needs supervision.

You should offer supervised in a centre or by a suitable third party and not with you involved if there has been past abuse, for the above reasons.

Thank you for all of this. I completely understand everything you say and like you I don’t necessarily agree with (the court system) but I’m really put between a rock and a hard place.

Social services pushed me to do mediation again as they said it looked as if I was keeping my child from their dad, I honestly wasn’t I just wanted to protect my child (they’re small, just turned 4).

but I have no options for a 3rd party to watch my ex and my child at a park etc so hence why I offered the garden visit.

i hate the idea of my ex being near me but I’d do whatever to protect my child. It all feels so very unfair. Protect your child because they’ve said they’ve been hurt on purpose, ex refuses to believe child (then says he’s going take our child on holiday with the woman who hurt them, which is when I cut contact as advised by social services) and now it’s like I have to tread carefully as to not incriminate myself for doing literally nothing. Not having a go at you all! Just venting my sheer frustration. Thank you for your help.

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OakTreex · 21/06/2023 22:46

I understand OP and I only know this because I've been in a similar position and it's bloody hard. Yep, unfortunately sometimes it's like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's like, if you don't safeguard and protect your child you'll be in trouble - failure to protect - if you do, you're also in trouble and having to prove you're not alienating them from the father purposefully. I get it because I've been there too.

I would try to keep out of court as much as possible tbh. It's more of the same but worse because your child's fate is in the hands of someone who very often shares these viewpoints (in my experience).

Just stick to the mantra: "I want to promote contact as long as it's safe", "I am pro safe contact" etc. If there is any third party you can compromise on please consider it if you think he'd go for it to avoid court.

OakTreex · 21/06/2023 22:48

Also OP consider offering indirect contact like video calls. As child is young they'd only need to be short. It shows you are promoting the relationship with the father and puts you in a good light, however unpalatable it is it will further your position.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 22/06/2023 00:04

Is he on the birth certificate

EliflurtleTripanInfinite · 22/06/2023 02:32

Is there someone in your family or his that could supervise contact? A friend did this for her sisters child, had Dad and child at their house and supervised it. Admittedly though this was ongoing for a year and it was getting really exhausting for her, supervising weekly contact is a big commitment. If you have the money OP I'd get some legal advice about your position and what's likely to happen if you go to court. Even if child services has said not to allow contact some judges could take a dim view of this. I'm wondering if you were the poster whose DC Dad's girlfriend smacked? Or if it was a different harm. Personally I think smacking a child is no different to hitting them, but I know there are people who still think this is ok.

EliflurtleTripanInfinite · 22/06/2023 02:34

OakTreex · 21/06/2023 22:48

Also OP consider offering indirect contact like video calls. As child is young they'd only need to be short. It shows you are promoting the relationship with the father and puts you in a good light, however unpalatable it is it will further your position.

This is a good idea. I'd make the offer in writing so you've got a record and try to be flexible and do the time Ex asks for if it's at all workable. Show you're supporting DC to have an ongoing safe relationship with their Dad, this will be seen as a point in your favour.