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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Holidays

25 replies

Sweetie1980 · 08/05/2023 07:06

I have posted before . My DH is emotional abusive and we are in the process of divorcing . I filed in 2020 when he smashed something up in front of DC . He has never offered to do any school holiday cover at all ,apart from one week in summer holidays , he has now demanded to take them away all week during next half term , I told him that’s unreasonable and he can have half the week as I had already planned to see my family ( they live very far away so my parents never get to see the children ) I already feel so isolated and divorce is very stressful as he is abusive . Can he just demand the entire week?

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ThisIsaNiceDress · 08/05/2023 07:33

I’m not sure he can demand anything but also wondering why you would refuse to do so. Has he demanded it rather than asked politely and this is what raised your heckles?
if he does bugger all most of the time, would it be useful for him to take the kids off your hands for a week? Is he planning to take them somewhere nice? How would the kids feel about it? There is lots to consider, not just whether he can do it. Hope things get easier for you soon x

DustyLee123 · 08/05/2023 07:34

It’s not unreasonable to take his own children away for a week’s holiday.

milkysmum · 08/05/2023 07:36

Would this mean the children miss out on a holiday if you don't let them go? How old are they? I know how tough it is honestly I do. Ex H hardly ever sees our two, a couple of hours every month or two at best.

Sweetie1980 · 08/05/2023 07:38

Yes ,he did demand it when he knew we had plans already so I compromised and said he could have half the week . His solicitor has clearly told him to do this as he never has them during holidays and wants 50/50 holidays in the future . He knew I had booked time off from work and if he has all week they won’t get to see my family until the summer holidays . Every holiday I ask him what days he wants and he always says he is working .

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ElfDragon · 08/05/2023 07:41

How old are the children? What would they (not you, not your parents) prefer to do?

it is really difficult when you have made plans and then the other parent suggests a different plan.

would what he is suggesting be doable in half the week? If you insist on him only having half the week, then it may mean your dc miss out altogether, and they are entitled to time with their dad.

Rabbitmouse · 08/05/2023 07:41

Are your kids scared of him? Feel comfortable around him? If so, sounds lovely for them to have a rare week with him.

It’s tough on you and your family but the upside is they get to be taken on holiday by their dad and have some positive, fun times with him - which you say is currently lacking for them.

Sweetie1980 · 08/05/2023 07:45

He hasn’t got any plans yet, just said he wants all the half term holiday as he knows we had plans , he wouldn’t let me take them away at Easter as he couldn’t go away .

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millymollymoomoo · 08/05/2023 07:48

Well he sounds horrid however

he is entitled to take them away
if it goes to court is likely to get half of all holidays ( which means he gets one whole half term you get another whole half term rather than the weeks being split)

he’s unreasonable if you have already made plans / in which case simply state it’s not possible this time but he can have the next half term

how old are your children and what’s their relationship like with their dad generally ?

sounds like you need to agree holidays so you both get them - which means he needs to do his share all the time

snitzelvoncrumb · 08/05/2023 07:51

Let him know he can have them in the second week. If you don’t trust him maybe pick the kids up early on the last day so he can’t just take them.

ElfDragon · 08/05/2023 07:55

I share half terms as pp says - we (in theory) do every other half term each. This year, exH had February (except it turned out he could only do half the week, so they stayed here for half of it), and will have October (except he can only ever manage 1 week, and 2 of the dc have 2 week half terms, so they will stay with me for the extra), and my half term is May. Next year, Feb and Oct will be mine, and May his.

(he also has a week at Easter and a week at Christmas, and supposedly half the summer, but in reality he has never had even 3 weeks in the summer - youngest currently has almost 9 weeks off, so not even close to half)

it may be that he is doing this to spite you, it may be that he is trying to build up more of a relationship with his dc. You haven’t answered as to what the dx would prefer.

Since you have plans, it wouldn’t be unreasonable if you to say no, but do think about what your dc would prefer, and how you are going to resolve this going forwards. Maybe suggest arranging a full year plan, rather than last minute (from him) suggestions. That way you know what you can safely book with the dc, but also be prepared for him to back out of his suggested times.

Sweetie1980 · 08/05/2023 08:07

Thanks for the replies . my 12 year old has had a hard time with him in the past, emotional stuff and shouting a lot ,same with my little one . A trigger for his abuse is stress and being tired , he can be horrible . But he can also be good with them. They str quite scared of him and tread on eggshells . It’s hard to know what the DC would want to do. If it’s an amazing holiday then of course they would go .

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millymollymoomoo · 08/05/2023 08:11

well how old are they ? Have you asked them what they want ?

Sweetie1980 · 08/05/2023 08:15

7 and 12. I will ask them but he has no plans yet . Just frustrating as I have booked time off etc

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ElfDragon · 08/05/2023 08:16

At 12, your eldest should at the least be consulted. Don’t know what age the younger one is.

my exH is not brilliant with the dc. Mine have SN, and he isn’t great at dealing with that. Eldest usually goes to see him, but wouldn’t want to spend a whole week. Middle one doesn’t go at all, except for birthdays/Christmas (and even then only so her siblings don’t miss out). Youngest mostly goes, but has had periods where he can’t cope with it all. My youngest is 11, for reference.

the point it, it is their relationship with their dad. Not mine. They recognise it isn’t perfect, but on the whole 2 of them still want to see him (on their terms). Their choice, and yes, I have to pick up the pieces a LOT, but still their choice, not mine.

Sweetie1980 · 08/05/2023 08:29

Thanks for the replies which are a good help . It’s just very frustrating, he was drinking all day and night yesterday at a party , I was looking after the DC. He does what he wants and doesn’t think of the dc . I was the one up with them and will take them out today as he is hung over . If he did his fair share this would be easier

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PoseyFlump · 08/05/2023 08:43

he wouldn’t let me take them away at Easter as he couldn’t go away .

I don't understand. How could he stop you?

Sweetie1980 · 08/05/2023 08:54

He wouldn’t agree to it

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Sweetie1980 · 08/05/2023 08:59

We are still in the same house , not sure if I mentioned this

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WheelsUp · 08/05/2023 09:02

There's 13 weeks of school holidays a year. 50% would be 6.5 weeks each. Is he the type to pay for childcare to cover the days that he has to work?

I am surprised that you didn't apply for a Child Arrangement Order after he denied permission at Easter. Resident Parent (you) can ask for a clause saying that you can take the kids on holiday without his permission for up to 28 days. The cost I believe is £210 plus a mediation session if you self represent.

Gettingbysomehow · 08/05/2023 09:03

No he can't make unreasonable demands. Tell him to get stuffed. He should give you decent notice and ask if you have anything planned first
Being a big old man doesn't give him the right to demand the kids last minute without having the manners to ask about your plans.

ElfDragon · 08/05/2023 09:29

I do understand trying to separate from/divorce a difficult man. I am still in the middle of it all, and 5 years on he is still making things extremely difficult. Thankfully, he did move out, but only after a very fraught 18 months.

my exH would not have initially ‘let’ me go away with the dc. He would have made it incredibly difficult, emotionally blackmailed them about how much he was going to miss them, etc. I do understand the frustrations.

however, the dc do still have the right to a meaningful relationship with their father. You have 2 choices: stand your ground, insist on your ‘right’ to carry through your plans, but bear in mind that this may bring further difficult behaviours from your ex; or, try to compromise. Frame it from your dc’s perspective, and let him have time with them. Not all the time (you do have plans), and not only if he has concrete plans - just hanging out and being the primary carer is just as important. He may step up, and the dc have a good time, which is good for everybody (you included). He may not, in which case, the dc will not have a great time, and they are only going to get older and be able to have more of a say in where they spend their time.

you currently seem to be saying that spending time with your parents is more important to the dc than time with their other parent. This may be the case, but the dc are entitled to have a say as to whether they see it this way too.

yes, he’s being an annoying shitbag trying to change plans after you have made them (although not exactly last minute, as half term is still a few weeks away), it make sure that you aren’t putting being ‘in the right’ above your dc’s wants and needs.

ElfDragon · 08/05/2023 09:37

As to still being in the same house, and everything falling to you - try to set some ground rules. ExH refused to move out for 18 months after I filed for divorce. He was trying to build a relationship with the dc, and trying to prove that I wasn’t, without question, by far the majority primary carer. It didn’t work. But we had ground rules - we had ‘EOW’ type arrangements, in that we each had the responsibility of eg getting dc up/fed/in charge of sports activities and drop offs/meal planning (although on my weekends, he did expect to join in with meals I cooked, but on his weekends he took the dc out to eat - funny that!).

Draw some lines. At the least, suggest boundaries. If he doesn’t want to go along with it, then you have a far better case for saying you will not change plans you have made to fit in around him. If he wants to leave it all to you, then let him. But if it is more a case of you carrying in doing everything because you always have, and him taking the piss because you let him, then you need to change. You don’t have to take the dc out today because he is hung over. He could get up and get on with it, and maybe learn to put his dc first.

Sweetie1980 · 08/05/2023 10:07

Thanks . He won’t put the dc first . Can I ask what childcare arrangements you have now ? I hear what you are saying re thinking spending time with him is more important i but he lives with the dc so sees them all the time even if he isn’t their primary carer . I make time for his family to see the dc all the time , my family haven’t seen them got months . I will see what plans he comes up with as he may just be threatening

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ElfDragon · 08/05/2023 10:40

I have outlined most of my childcare arrangements upthread. We have (on the face of it) a standard EOW, and half the school holidays arrangement. Plus one overnight in the week. However, he doesn’t do half the school holidays (dc are at independent school, so long holidays). He (mostly) does: a week at Christmas (may be 5 or 6 days, instead of a week), a week at Easter (may be 5 or 6 days instead of a week), and up to 3 weeks in the summer (usually falls short by a couple of days, plus I end up with extra dc for a few days if they can’t cope with being at their dad’s), then every other half term (again, he only does one week in the October half term, I get the extra one).

eldest dc (severe ASD, plus learning difficulties) goes about 90% of that time. Won’t stay more than 3 days in a row, usually, so eg if a week at dad’s is planned, then dc will come home for one or two nights, sometimes a day too.

middle dc doesn’t go at all, unless it’s a birthday or Christmas Day/Easter day. Then only goes as recognises it’s nice for siblings to have those days with her, not to see her dad.

youngest goes about 90% of the time (not always the same 90% as eldest 😂). Tends to be ok muddling through a week, but every so often it builds up to total refusal to go, usually for a couple of months.

I don’t work, due to dcs’ disabilities, and so I can be more flexible, but I haven’t, since we separated, ever had a whole week to myself, and since dc2 stopped going, not even a weekend to myself, which does get difficult. It also means that exH tends to see me as the default parent, and makes his plans then tells me what is happening. Sometimes it is for work, which is more understandable, but other times it’s for him to eg have a holiday, and I do push back then - he doesn’t get to dictate my time.

it is difficult doing it all myself, most of the time, but my dc didn’t ask to be in this situation, and they all openly state which parent they can depend on - exH complains occasionally that he feels pushed out, but it is him removing himself from their lives, and not being someone they can rely on that causes this. Last year, it came to light that he didn’t even know what school year each dc was in; this year, despite knowing now, he has plans to go away during dc2’s gcse exams - thus underlining how much she can’t rely on him, in her mind. It is, ultimately, his loss.

re: families spending time with the dc, if you put arrangements in place like EOW, even when you are still living together, then he can make those arrangements for his family, in his time. I understand it’s not so easy for you, because your family is further away, but it then become unreasonable of him to scupper your plans, if the dc have already seen his family.

it is always difficult when dealing with an unreasonable person, but try not to fall into the trap,of being stubborn for the sake of it (not saying you are), or sticking to ‘your’ plans because he is being an arse - make sure it’s not at the expense of what the dc want or need. He may not be a shining example of a parent, but he is their parent, and they do deserve the right to equal time with him, if they want. Separated families mean less time to organise things like visits to family, as time is shared. Make sure the dc are the front and centre of plans.

Ilikepinacoladass · 15/05/2023 08:39

You were looking after the DC while he was out at a party, and then the next day while he was hung over - I think you need to organise a plan where you work out which are his days to have them and which are yours? If it was your days to have them then I don't see the problem with him being a party / hung over. It's sounds like you're still operating like a couple in terms of looking after them, and living together I'm sure is not helping that?

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