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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

What is a fair pension and asset split

10 replies

Confused9528 · 10/04/2023 07:00

Looking for advice for a dear friend.
Long marriage with children. Wife has taken out over 15 years to raise the children and not been able to contribute to a pension during those years. Has been paying into a private pension for the past couple of years but not much in the pot. Husband is older and nearing 60, when he plans to retire and has a reasonable sized pension pot.
5 children from the marriage with the youngest 3 still at primary school. Would the wife be able to claim any of the pension pot?
could she take zero from his pension in leui of a bigger share of the family home?
would the court want to award him a bigger share of everything as he doesn’t have many working years left so won’t be able to get a mortgage and rehouse himself and needs his pension as he will soon be reliant on it?
surely the Childrens needs have to be considered too? they are going to need a home to live in. The current family home is quite modest and they won’t get anything suitable for much less money near to Childrens schools etc.

OP posts:
isthewashingdryyet · 10/04/2023 07:06

See a good divorce lawyer don’t let her negotiate this on her own

Soontobe60 · 10/04/2023 07:07

Well as he’s about to retire, the children could live with him couldnt they? Then the wife could work full time to up her pension contributions. How old is she?
don’t forget, if he has to give her some of his pension, he will have a lower income on which to base any maintenance - unless the children live with him at which point the wife will be the one paying him maintenance.

Confused9528 · 10/04/2023 07:14

No, the children can’t live with him full time. He hasn’t got a clue about their needs. One of them has a significant medical condition and he has to constantly ask his wife about the basics of looking after the condition whenever she leaves the house.

OP posts:
Mindymomo · 10/04/2023 07:15

Your friend needs to get all paperwork in order, then see a Solicitor. Starting point to consider would be 50/50 split everything. Unfortunately unless his pension is massive, he may have to continue working a few more years and your friend will also need to consider working to get her own pension pot.

ElfDragon · 10/04/2023 07:19

My exH was recent told by a judge that the judge didn’t think that exH would retire when he said he was planning to (ie judge said that he thought exH was laying about retirement plans I order to minimise the pension/asset split).

judge took it into consideration when coming to his conclusion. I too have a disabled child, and so the split was not straightforward, due to needs and the fact o cannot simply start working full time. .

Confused9528 · 10/04/2023 08:09

That’s just it elfdragon due to the child’s health condition she can’t just go to work full time and start building her own healthy pension pot. She would also struggle to rehouse the family in a house suitable for her child’s needs and close enough to their schools. The current house has been adapted to suit the child’s medical needs.
I honestly think if she could have just gone and got a full time job and moved to a cheaper house she would have applied for divorce a few years ago. She feels trapped but is now trying to work out if it is at all possible for her to separate without it putting her children in a totally destitute situation.

OP posts:
RuthW · 10/04/2023 08:17

Yes she is entitled to a hefty share of his pension. See a solicitor asap.

When we divorced when we were both late 30s I had all the house and took on the existing mortgage and in return he had all his pension.

Worked well for us. A secure home was more important for me at that time and he happily retired in his early 50s.

Reply2confused9582 · 10/04/2023 13:42

@Confused9528 Info for your friend

Re – Divorce and Financial Settlement
To know what a fair split of assets is and to reach a financial settlement divorcing parties need to know what the assets of the marriage are, and what each asset is worth. On this basis informed decisions can be made.

Full and frank disclosure is a legal requirement and it is important to get it.

What does full and frank disclosure look like?
Look at a Form E. A long document in which each party sets out their assets, income, and financial needs. You can see in it the assets that are taken into consideration upon divorce and financial settlement, for example property (the former marital home), pensions, savings, stocks and shares etc. It also lists the documents needed that show the value of assets for example CETVs (cash equivalent transfer values of pensions - which can be requested from pension providers). Form Es are exchanged – both parties fill them out, attach the required documentary evidence and send them to each other. Form D81 can also be used.

What are the assets worth?
To find out what some assets are worth an independent expert can be used. Property can be valued by an expert - estate agents, pensions by CETV and / or a pension on divorce expert (PODE) report and so on. It is important to decide what needs a valuation by an independent expert and factor in the costs of these.

Pensions can be very valuable – equivalent or more than the value of the former martial home in some cases. Divorcing parties might hold different types of pensions (not like-for-like, so difficult to compare without an expert). Circumstances might be complex for example an age difference or pensions in payment. One party may have stayed at home to look after children.

An actuary can do an in-depth report on pension sharing - what capital and income would be if split 50/50 or a percentage of choice. They can be instructed to factor in retirement ages of the parties. Joint instructions are given to the actuary and they walk parties through the process.

Who gets what?
When deciding how to distribute a couple’s assets and income the court must apply a checklist of factors set by statute. The relevant statute is section 25 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973. These factors will need to be applied in every case, regardless of whether you are engaged in court proceedings or negotiating your own settlement. These are often called the Section 25 factors, which the court will consider when deciding how to distribute assets upon divorce or dissolution.

Section 25 Factors
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1973/18/section/25

https://images.ctfassets.net/o8luwa28k6k2/2cpp2mEMwBJWJLuzTiTruB/b5397e7459154fad8927826a2c99acdd/section-25-expert-guide.pdf

The income, earning capacity, property, and other financial resource which each of the parties to the marriage has or is likely to have in the foreseeable future is considered.

First consideration is given to the welfare (while a minor) of any child of the family who has not yet attained the age of eighteen.

The needs of each divorcing party are considered and as I understand it 50 / 50 is the starting point – so unequal shares based on circumstances and needs is possible, for example 60 / 40.

Not getting full and frank disclosure?
It is vital to get all the assets “on the table” so that informed financial decision can be made and a fair/just settlement negotiated.

Full and frank financial disclosure is required and usually provided when Form E is exchanged.
If after Form E there is missing information / documentary evidence ‘Questionnaires’ may be exchanged to retrieve it – a list of questions and a list of any missing documentary evidence required which is served on each party.
If still missing after that, ‘Deficiencies’ are exchanged – questions can be asked to clarify and al list of required documentary evidence still missing.
A solicitor’s letter can be sent to retrieve financial information / documentary evidence.
A Court Order can also be applied for to gain financial information / documentary evidence / valuations that are missing / essential.

Advice and info
These offer a free advice session about pensions on divorce and separation https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/divorce-and-separation/divorce-or-dissolution-how-we-can-help-with-your-pension
Free advice line (busy so keep trying) https://rightsofwomen.org.uk

Guides on divorce and financial settlement
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/divorce-and-separation
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-apply-financial-order-without-help-lawyer

Pensions on divorce
https://www.sharingpensions.co.uk/penaudit3.htm
https://www.mediateuk.co.uk/the-ultimate-guide-to-pensions-on-divorce/
https://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/news/new-good-practice-guide-addresses-shortfall-in-understanding-of-how-to-treat-pensions-on-divorce

Valuation of pensions – pensions on divorce expert report (actuary)
https://www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk no relation – useful website
https://www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk/pension-data-collection/ templates for information required

Mediation
Mediation can be used to reach agreements.
Some cases are not suitable for mediation e.g., domestic abuse/bullying/coercive control.

https://www.gov.uk/money-property-when-relationship-ends/mediation
https://resolution.org.uk/looking-for-help/splitting-up/your-process-options-for-divorce-and-dissolution/family-mediation/

The First Meeting with a Mediator – The MIAM
www.familymediationcouncil.org.uk/family-mediation/assessment-meeting-miam/
“The mediator will tell you whether your case is suitable for mediation, and you can decide whether you want to proceed with mediation or explore another option for resolving issues. The mediator can also give you information about other services which provide help and support.”

Legal advice
This link gives you an indication of hourly rate for solicitors
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/solicitors-guideline-hourly-rates

Some organisations offer free advice from solicitors and barristers https://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/ On their FAQs page…”Our Legal Officers and Volunteer legal advisors are all solicitors and barristers”.

Some family solicitors offer an in initial free consultation and some a fixed fee rather than hourly.
Some barristers can be directly instructed e.g., via Clerksroom Direct

Mumsnet suggest https://www.advicenow.org.uk/tags/separation-divorce-and-dissolution-civil-partnerships

Confused9528 · 11/04/2023 07:19

I spoke to friend yesterday. She has already had a free initial appointment with a solicitor. She has been told the start point is 60:40 spit of house in favour of parent with care of the kids and 50:50 pension. But it is not likely to be that straightforward due to her husbands age and the child’s medical needs. But the solicitor wouldn’t indicate what difference those factors will make.

OP posts:
SueVineer · 19/04/2023 20:22

Depending on the type of pension, if it is in payment the treatment will be different.

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