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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Solicitor fees

17 replies

sparkle2345 · 20/03/2023 06:32

I've never had to use a solicitor and now with possible divorce
How do you pay for them?
Do some do payments plan etc

Sorry still totally lost

OP posts:
replytosparkle2345 · 20/03/2023 09:18

www.advicenow.org.uk/divorce-and-separation

Free to download or read online, or you can buy a printed copy - Guides

One guide explains what you need to do to get a divorce or end a civil partnership, and how to do it if you do not have a lawyer.

Another guide explains sorting out your finances as part of a divorce if you are unable to agree a financial divorce settlement. It shows you how to go to court to apply for a financial order if you can’t come to an agreement between yourselves. It explains what you need to understand, what orders you can apply for (including clean break orders), what your other options are, how the process works, and what you need to do and how to do it if you can't afford a lawyer to help with most or all of it. It will help you manage the whole process, step by step. And if you need a bit of expert advice, you can speak to a solicitor on their Affordable Advice panel for a low-cost, fixed fee.

Legal advice
This link gives you an indication of hourly rate for solicitors
www.gov.uk/guidance/solicitors-guideline-hourly-rates

Some organisations offer free advice from solicitors and barristers rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/ On their FAQs page…”Our Legal Officers and Volunteer legal advisors are all solicitors and barristers”.

Some family solicitors offer an in initial free consultation and some a fixed fee rather than hourly.

Some barristers can be directly instructed e.g., via Clerksroom Direct
Mumsnet suggest www.advicenow.org.uk/tags/separation-divorce-and-dissolution-civil-partnerships

Mediation
Mediation can be used to reach agreements and this can cut costs.

Some cases are not suitable for mediation e.g., domestic abuse/bullying/coercive control.

www.gov.uk/money-property-when-relationship-ends/mediation
resolution.org.uk/looking-for-help/splitting-up/your-process-options-for-divorce-and-dissolution/family-mediation/

The First Meeting with a Mediator – The MIAM
www.familymediationcouncil.org.uk/family-mediation/assessment-meeting-miam/
“The mediator will tell you whether your case is suitable for mediation, and you can decide whether you want to proceed with mediation or explore another option for resolving issues. The mediator can also give you information about other services which provide help and support.”

In case needed...

Re – Divorce and Financial Settlement
To know what a fair split of assets is and to reach a financial settlement divorcing parties need to know what the assets of the marriage are, and what each asset is worth.

Full and frank disclosure is a legal requirement.

What does full and frank disclosure look like?
Look at a Form E. A long document in which each party sets out their assets, income, and financial needs. You can see in it the assets that are taken into consideration upon divorce and financial settlement, for example property (the former marital home), pensions, savings, stocks and shares etc. It also lists the documents needed that show the value of assets for example CETVs (cash equivalent transfer values of pensions - which can be requested from pension providers). Form Es are exchanged – both parties fill them out, attach the required documentary evidence and send them to each other. Some use Form D81. Mediators tend to ask parties to fill out Form E to get a full picture.

What are the assets worth?
To find out what some assets are worth an independent expert can be used. Property can be valued by an expert - estate agents, pensions by CETV and / or a pension on divorce expert (PODE) report and so on. It is important to decide what needs a valuation by an independent expert and factor in the costs of these.

Pensions can be very valuable – equivalent or more than the value of the former martial home in some cases. Divorcing parties might hold different types of pensions (not like-for-like, so difficult to compare without an expert). Circumstances might be complex for example an age difference or pensions in payment. One party may have stayed at home to look after children. An actuary can do an in-depth report on pension sharing - what capital and income would be if split 50/50 or a percentage of choice. They can be instructed to factor in retirement ages of the parties. Joint instructions are given to the actuary and they walk parties through the process.

Who gets what?
When deciding how to distribute a couple’s assets and income the court must apply a checklist of factors set by statute. The relevant statute is section 25 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973. These factors will need to be applied in every case, regardless of whether you are engaged in court proceedings or negotiating your own settlement. These are often called the Section 25 factors, which the court will consider when deciding how to distribute assets upon divorce or dissolution.

Section 25 Factors
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1973/18/section/25
images.ctfassets.net/o8luwa28k6k2/2cpp2mEMwBJWJLuzTiTruB/b5397e7459154fad8927826a2c99acdd/section-25-expert-guide.pdf

The income, earning capacity, property, and other financial resource which each of the parties to the marriage has or is likely to have in the foreseeable future is considered.

First consideration is given to the welfare (while a minor) of any child of the family who has not yet attained the age of eighteen.

The needs of each divorcing party are considered and as I understand it 50 / 50 is the starting point – so unequal shares based on circumstances and needs is possible, for example 60 / 40.

Not getting full and frank disclosure?
It is vital to get all the assets “on the table” so that informed financial decision can be made and a fair/just settlement negotiated.

Full and frank financial disclosure is required and usually provided when Form E is exchanged.

If after Form E there is missing information / documentary evidence ‘Questionnaires’ may be exchanged to retrieve it – a list of questions and a list of any missing documentary evidence required which is served on each party.
If still missing after that, ‘Deficiencies’ are exchanged – questions can be asked to clarify and al list of required documentary evidence still missing.

A solicitor’s letter can be sent to retrieve financial information / documentary evidence.

A Court Order can also be applied for to gain financial information / documentary evidence / valuations that are missing / essential.

Advice and info
These offer a free advice session about pensions on divorce and separation www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/divorce-and-separation/divorce-or-dissolution-how-we-can-help-with-your-pension
Free advice line (busy so keep trying) rightsofwomen.org.uk

Guides on divorce and financial settlement
www.advicenow.org.uk/divorce-and-separation
www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-apply-financial-order-without-help-lawyer

Pensions on divorce
www.sharingpensions.co.uk/penaudit3.htm
www.mediateuk.co.uk/the-ultimate-guide-to-pensions-on-divorce/
www.nuffieldfoundation.org/news/new-good-practice-guide-addresses-shortfall-in-understanding-of-how-to-treat-pensions-on-divorce
Valuation of pensions – pensions on divorce expert report (actuary)
www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk no relation – useful website
www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk/pension-data-collection/ templates for information required

Fourmagpies · 20/03/2023 11:40

They're all different. Some might say on their websites or you could try calling them. Some will allow a payment plan, or for you to pay once the finance order is settled, particularly if that means money is coming to you. You don't necessarily need a solicitor. The first part is really simple and you can do it yourself - start the divorce process online on Gov.uk www.gov.uk/divorce

You'll need a solicitor to draft the consent order, but if finances are simple you may not need a solicitor for the rest. Most will do a free consultation.

2022NewTimes · 20/03/2023 15:06

sparkle2345 · 20/03/2023 06:32

I've never had to use a solicitor and now with possible divorce
How do you pay for them?
Do some do payments plan etc

Sorry still totally lost

@sparkle2345 How complicated will your divorce be ? - Alot of it can be done by yourself - I only used solicitor for financial consent order

Greensleevevssnotnose · 20/03/2023 15:09

Mine took first charge on the house as I had no money

sparkle2345 · 21/03/2023 05:21

I don't think it will be to difficult
Most things are separate cars etc

The house and children will be the main things to sort

OP posts:
IllogicalLogic · 21/03/2023 07:58

Best tip from me is...

Don't waste your time spending money on solicitor emails and phone calls back and forth. It can literally rack up to hundreds of thousands and on the day in court NONE of it gets read. It's pointless.

Wish someone had told me that!

monsterradeliciosa · 21/03/2023 09:33

Why do you need a solicitor exactly?

I'm divorcing right now and have no choice but to forego a solicitor. Thankfully any assets are non existant and even if they were I wouldn't bother fighting for them. I only care about my daughter.

I applied for divorce with a fee waiver and did the form on my phone and that part's done now. At every stage I expect to fee waive and there's nothing to split but if there was and I wanted it I think I could just say 'this is what I want' and then let the court decide.

2022NewTimes · 21/03/2023 12:20

sparkle2345 · 21/03/2023 05:21

I don't think it will be to difficult
Most things are separate cars etc

The house and children will be the main things to sort

Only solicitors fees was £480 for consent order - the rest I filed myself and if you can work out D81 form and agree between you - will save loads

Bonkerz · 23/03/2023 16:12

Ask on Facebook for recommendations. Best money I spent was hiring a lawyer. It's taken 2 years in all from start to nearly finished now. It was the financial order that took the time. My solicitor charged a set fee of £2k and it was paid in 4 instalments in total. I did have to pay court fees on top but managed to get ex to pay £750!

Pedrapas · 04/01/2024 19:59

Could anyone help with solicitor fees please. I have been charged in total £86 just for my solicitor writing to me to tell me that they were going on Christmas break. £23 consideration time to send me email. £23 to send email to me. £23 to read my reply of thanks, will catch up in January and a further £23 to consider my reply? I also have an issue that they are increasingly using trainees and my bill is increased due to the time it is taking them to draft an email- I am then being charged by solicitor whilst they read trainees draft and consider it. Is this standard practice I have a bill of £1200 for 18 emails, no meetings, no telephone calls and to add it is not a complex case at all.

Appleofmyeye2023 · 05/01/2024 15:14

replytosparkle2345 · 20/03/2023 09:18

www.advicenow.org.uk/divorce-and-separation

Free to download or read online, or you can buy a printed copy - Guides

One guide explains what you need to do to get a divorce or end a civil partnership, and how to do it if you do not have a lawyer.

Another guide explains sorting out your finances as part of a divorce if you are unable to agree a financial divorce settlement. It shows you how to go to court to apply for a financial order if you can’t come to an agreement between yourselves. It explains what you need to understand, what orders you can apply for (including clean break orders), what your other options are, how the process works, and what you need to do and how to do it if you can't afford a lawyer to help with most or all of it. It will help you manage the whole process, step by step. And if you need a bit of expert advice, you can speak to a solicitor on their Affordable Advice panel for a low-cost, fixed fee.

Legal advice
This link gives you an indication of hourly rate for solicitors
www.gov.uk/guidance/solicitors-guideline-hourly-rates

Some organisations offer free advice from solicitors and barristers rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/ On their FAQs page…”Our Legal Officers and Volunteer legal advisors are all solicitors and barristers”.

Some family solicitors offer an in initial free consultation and some a fixed fee rather than hourly.

Some barristers can be directly instructed e.g., via Clerksroom Direct
Mumsnet suggest www.advicenow.org.uk/tags/separation-divorce-and-dissolution-civil-partnerships

Mediation
Mediation can be used to reach agreements and this can cut costs.

Some cases are not suitable for mediation e.g., domestic abuse/bullying/coercive control.

www.gov.uk/money-property-when-relationship-ends/mediation
resolution.org.uk/looking-for-help/splitting-up/your-process-options-for-divorce-and-dissolution/family-mediation/

The First Meeting with a Mediator – The MIAM
www.familymediationcouncil.org.uk/family-mediation/assessment-meeting-miam/
“The mediator will tell you whether your case is suitable for mediation, and you can decide whether you want to proceed with mediation or explore another option for resolving issues. The mediator can also give you information about other services which provide help and support.”

In case needed...

Re – Divorce and Financial Settlement
To know what a fair split of assets is and to reach a financial settlement divorcing parties need to know what the assets of the marriage are, and what each asset is worth.

Full and frank disclosure is a legal requirement.

What does full and frank disclosure look like?
Look at a Form E. A long document in which each party sets out their assets, income, and financial needs. You can see in it the assets that are taken into consideration upon divorce and financial settlement, for example property (the former marital home), pensions, savings, stocks and shares etc. It also lists the documents needed that show the value of assets for example CETVs (cash equivalent transfer values of pensions - which can be requested from pension providers). Form Es are exchanged – both parties fill them out, attach the required documentary evidence and send them to each other. Some use Form D81. Mediators tend to ask parties to fill out Form E to get a full picture.

What are the assets worth?
To find out what some assets are worth an independent expert can be used. Property can be valued by an expert - estate agents, pensions by CETV and / or a pension on divorce expert (PODE) report and so on. It is important to decide what needs a valuation by an independent expert and factor in the costs of these.

Pensions can be very valuable – equivalent or more than the value of the former martial home in some cases. Divorcing parties might hold different types of pensions (not like-for-like, so difficult to compare without an expert). Circumstances might be complex for example an age difference or pensions in payment. One party may have stayed at home to look after children. An actuary can do an in-depth report on pension sharing - what capital and income would be if split 50/50 or a percentage of choice. They can be instructed to factor in retirement ages of the parties. Joint instructions are given to the actuary and they walk parties through the process.

Who gets what?
When deciding how to distribute a couple’s assets and income the court must apply a checklist of factors set by statute. The relevant statute is section 25 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973. These factors will need to be applied in every case, regardless of whether you are engaged in court proceedings or negotiating your own settlement. These are often called the Section 25 factors, which the court will consider when deciding how to distribute assets upon divorce or dissolution.

Section 25 Factors
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1973/18/section/25
images.ctfassets.net/o8luwa28k6k2/2cpp2mEMwBJWJLuzTiTruB/b5397e7459154fad8927826a2c99acdd/section-25-expert-guide.pdf

The income, earning capacity, property, and other financial resource which each of the parties to the marriage has or is likely to have in the foreseeable future is considered.

First consideration is given to the welfare (while a minor) of any child of the family who has not yet attained the age of eighteen.

The needs of each divorcing party are considered and as I understand it 50 / 50 is the starting point – so unequal shares based on circumstances and needs is possible, for example 60 / 40.

Not getting full and frank disclosure?
It is vital to get all the assets “on the table” so that informed financial decision can be made and a fair/just settlement negotiated.

Full and frank financial disclosure is required and usually provided when Form E is exchanged.

If after Form E there is missing information / documentary evidence ‘Questionnaires’ may be exchanged to retrieve it – a list of questions and a list of any missing documentary evidence required which is served on each party.
If still missing after that, ‘Deficiencies’ are exchanged – questions can be asked to clarify and al list of required documentary evidence still missing.

A solicitor’s letter can be sent to retrieve financial information / documentary evidence.

A Court Order can also be applied for to gain financial information / documentary evidence / valuations that are missing / essential.

Advice and info
These offer a free advice session about pensions on divorce and separation www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/divorce-and-separation/divorce-or-dissolution-how-we-can-help-with-your-pension
Free advice line (busy so keep trying) rightsofwomen.org.uk

Guides on divorce and financial settlement
www.advicenow.org.uk/divorce-and-separation
www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-apply-financial-order-without-help-lawyer

Pensions on divorce
www.sharingpensions.co.uk/penaudit3.htm
www.mediateuk.co.uk/the-ultimate-guide-to-pensions-on-divorce/
www.nuffieldfoundation.org/news/new-good-practice-guide-addresses-shortfall-in-understanding-of-how-to-treat-pensions-on-divorce
Valuation of pensions – pensions on divorce expert report (actuary)
www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk no relation – useful website
www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk/pension-data-collection/ templates for information required

This is great post OP
I second, and am always pointing folks to ADVICE NOW link at to
of the boards. Their guides are great. Will save you literally £1000s and potentially months/ years.

don’t think you can’t manage this mostly yourself. The process isn’t that difficult. What is difficult is financial agreements if you can’t stay amicable or accept you’ll BOTH be worse off. That’s when it gets messy, stressful, expensive becuase people always pass everything across to solicitors .

solicitors will charge you at rate above £200 an hour for every minute they’re answering your basic questions you could find answers to in ADVICE NOW or on government divorce website (also brilliant) , they’ll charge you every time they pick up your file and move it, think about your case, or listen to your venting. You DO usually need one for specific tasks- do so judiciously by knowing the process and which specific tasks you’ll instruct them for.

Appleofmyeye2023 · 05/01/2024 15:18

Also, one ad£ to that great post

agree to NOTHING re financial agree,ents until your full fancial disclosures are made. (form E and D81 summary)

how can you agree when you don’t know exaclty,or you haven’t agreed between you, EXACTLY what there is.

itcalso helps to leverage parties reluctant to do that legal disclosure and dragging their heals. It’s not optional or after the event of agreeing your split. It’s the first step.

Appleofmyeye2023 · 05/01/2024 15:22

Appleofmyeye2023 · 05/01/2024 15:14

This is great post OP
I second, and am always pointing folks to ADVICE NOW link at to
of the boards. Their guides are great. Will save you literally £1000s and potentially months/ years.

don’t think you can’t manage this mostly yourself. The process isn’t that difficult. What is difficult is financial agreements if you can’t stay amicable or accept you’ll BOTH be worse off. That’s when it gets messy, stressful, expensive becuase people always pass everything across to solicitors .

solicitors will charge you at rate above £200 an hour for every minute they’re answering your basic questions you could find answers to in ADVICE NOW or on government divorce website (also brilliant) , they’ll charge you every time they pick up your file and move it, think about your case, or listen to your venting. You DO usually need one for specific tasks- do so judiciously by knowing the process and which specific tasks you’ll instruct them for.

👏👏👏I’m constantly posting on this board. This is great response summarising information. Please save and keep posting it too

i asked MN to add the link tov ADVICE NOW on this board. But it’s too small, and people are just not seeing it. So I’m on here all the time sing posting it again and again.

its so frustrating to see people being sucked into solicitors do everything route, and lacking confidence to take command of the process themselves. Especially given the process itself isn’t that difficult .

Well done

eurochick · 05/01/2024 15:43

Pedrapas · 04/01/2024 19:59

Could anyone help with solicitor fees please. I have been charged in total £86 just for my solicitor writing to me to tell me that they were going on Christmas break. £23 consideration time to send me email. £23 to send email to me. £23 to read my reply of thanks, will catch up in January and a further £23 to consider my reply? I also have an issue that they are increasingly using trainees and my bill is increased due to the time it is taking them to draft an email- I am then being charged by solicitor whilst they read trainees draft and consider it. Is this standard practice I have a bill of £1200 for 18 emails, no meetings, no telephone calls and to add it is not a complex case at all.

I'm a former law firm partner and would definitely challenge that bill. Billing you for telling you the holiday dates is ridiculous. You can also challenge the training time.

I have no idea whether the rest of the bill could be challenged. Matters are increasingly run via email now. Meetings can be rare. It doesn't mean that your matter is not being progressed.

Pedrapas · 05/01/2024 17:57

Thank you for all your responses, I will be challenging the bill as they have charged nearly £400 in total for 1 email from the trainee . This was due to time they took to draft it, me pointing out they had made mistakes and redrafts and then charged upon my solicitors return from holiday for them to catch up what had happened whilst they were on holiday- they also asked if ok for a trainee to sit in on a previous face to face meeting and can see now that they charged me also for the trainees time ( had they informed me it was chargeable I would have refused) Just to add I have already been through mediation, a financial agreement has been agreed and a consent order drafted… this was all done a year ago. It has dragged a year as ex has now refused to terms of consent order but it is myself who is being accused of not signing it even though it states they are not in agreement to it? I have questioned with solicitor and that I am utterly confused and they have suggested I come in for a meeting to add to more costs! I cannot keep paying and feel that at this point I just need to say enough and if my ex wants to take me to court to do so- I can show was happy to sign consent order it was them who kept refusing details. To add my ex lied all through mediation and on Form E - this was only found out after agreement was reached and was told not to challenge it as would run the risk of agreement collapsing and going to court.

eurochick · 05/01/2024 19:29

The general rule of thumb is that you shouldn't be charged for anything that doesn't "add value" to the file. So the trainee sitting in on your meeting was unlikely to have added value for you - it was a training benefit for them and the firm. The emails about Christmas holidays certainly didn't.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 06/01/2024 16:04

Working out a settlement between yourselves will save a lot of money. However, the consent order should be drafted by a solicitor to ensure correct wording. Though I am not sure if the same solicitor could act on behalf of both parties? So, a second solicitor may be necessary.

Try for a clean break if possible. My consent order included the wording;

This order represents full and final satisfaction of……. Neither party is entitled to make claims of any nature whatsoever against the other in the future.

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