Can't get pension info - can we agree a lump sum as a settlement?

[Undecidedandtorn]

I split up with my ex 2 years ago and we have two kids. We have split property assets 50/50 - this has resulted in him staying in the martial house, me buying a new property and paying him £60k (this has left us with matching equity).

Due to an age difference and being the higher earner my pension will be higher than his. However due to moving jobs a lot and other complications I'm struggling to get a total cash value. He was at home for 5 years as a stay at home dad and it didn't occur to us to set up a private pension at the time. He's relatively young (43) and has a good job with a pension scheme now.

I've offered him £15k as a final settlement figure for him not to have a claim on my pension. He's interested as he wants some work done but we don't know if that would acceptable to the court as I don't know the value of my pension. Does anyone know if courts would normally agree something like this?

The court regularly agrees to settlements where claims to pensions are capitalised or “bought out” in some way, as you describe.

However, when you submit your financial consent order you need to complete Form D81, and that includes setting out the value of all of your assets - including pensions. They ask for the CETVs.

The court needs to understand the context and the financial position of each party, before they can make a judgement.

It’s impossible to know whether an offer of £15k is fair or not, without understanding the values. How do you know yourself?

In short, you really do need the CETVs as a minimum, even when/if pension sharing won’t take place.

There is an online pension finding service I think. I would recommend using that as your first port of call. You will need to track down all of your pensions, and providers, and request the CETVs.

I was about to say pretty much what @Timeforachange2023 said.

it just seems to me like if he pension fund exists at all, you should be able to get CETV on it... presuming it's UK pension(s)?

I've recently completed d81 - one pension of ex we couldn't get the CEV from so put an estimate in. Solicitor said this was fine, ultimately a judge isn't going to forensically analyse every penny and you aren't required to provide paper evidence of every penny started in the form so as long as you both agree on the estimate then it's fine

You don't submit any evidence to the courts, just the form itself.
I don't see why you can't get the cetv though. Even public sector only take a few months to value them.
Are you sure you aren't just hiding them?

I think the problem in this example is that the OP doesn’t have a value for any pension and is proposing a deal which write offs any further claims to pension provision, on the basis of, well, nothing it appears.

Whilst it might be OK to approve an order on the basis of one pension having an estimate; I think it’s extremely unlikely a judge is going to approve an order which essentially has no basis.

Eugh I was in a similar position and it was one of the most frustrating/upsetting things trying to get info out of about 4 different companies. One was particularly difficult (prudential) who seemed to have a very circular system that they wouldn't give you the info until you sent the original marriage certificate ...which had already been sent with the divorce papers to the courts and it took ages and lots of waiting in hour long queues to speak to someone who literally just said 'computer says no' even though I said I could send a photo of it. Thankfully after an excruciating conversation someone who had obviously been on a systems thinking course finally listened to what I was saying. I hope things have improved, good luck.

@Timeforachange2023

But the D81 doesn't require you to provide any formal evidence to support the numbers so the judge has no idea if anything stated on it is an estimate or not

It's risky - I agree - but depends on the settlement as a whole - for me it didn't matter whether it was in the form as £5k but was actually £50k because it would have had no material impact on the final number agreed as the divorce settlement

Indeed. Definitely risky. I hear what you say about Form D81.

The “evidence” in instances of consent orders is the information in the form itself.

The form specifically asks for pension valuations as cash equivalents. Both parties also have to sign a statement of truth.

If I were the other party involved in the OP’s case, I wouldn’t be in a position to sign it. I don’t see how the OP could sign it either (based on the information they currently have).

As a minimum you would need to explain in the form that the numbers aren’t cash equivalents and essentially a guess. That might attract questions from the judge. It could soon unravel.

Then, even if it got approved, if the sums involved turned out to be significant enough, it could later be challenged, if they would have made a difference to the settlement reached.

Having said all of that. Every case is different. I think my advice to the OP remains the same. Getting as many of the CETVs as possible (if there are multiple pension providers), is the way to go. Short-term pain for long-term gain.

Thanks for all your advice - super useful. I signed up to a company where you can get all your pensions in one place over a year ago but the whole process is dragging on and so far they have only been able to transfer one pension out of 5 so not much closer. Not hiding it - just struggling to get the info.

This company, they must have an idea on total values for all the pensions, even if a year old, to ensure the merging of the pensions is the right thing to do for you.
They will need to be able to justify that the transfer will benefit you in the long run.

Why did you ex get the marital home and you had to pay him £60k?
Other properties or assets?

Yeah- there was a flat as well which got sold and the mortgage on it was tiny. The company have already not been able to transfer one pension as it wouldn't be in my best interests but I should be able to get that cash value but its from 20 years ago. The ones in between seem to be problematic.

You’re welcome. 😊

Good luck with it all! It sounds like a real pain. I had similar dramas with my ex and their CETVs. Even though their pensions weren’t being split and mine was, we still needed to obtain their CETVs and my ex dragged their feet for 2 years to get them!

However, it was recently resolved and the order was then approved with no problems.

You will get there in the end! Just keep pressing this company.

Sounds like a possible defined benefit if it was not in your best interests to transfer in. If it is, this could be very valuable
Are all the pensions in your name?
If so, he could be entitled to a % of them