Starting the Process

[Mumlookingforhelp]

Ok, so looking for some pointers on getting divorce started, so much info on the web its totally confusing.

We are both hoping we can do as much as possible ourselves and then get it legally checked at the end to make sure its fair. It is a difficult time but both want this to be as amicable as possible and not destroy each other and have it affect the kids. Me 47, him 50. 2 kids, 13 (in a few days) & 15.

First off its the question around the house. Been married 12 years and together for almost 20. He earns more than me (some of his is commission based but would expect it to be around 95k (could be 80, could be 110) and I get around 42k (again, some commission so 40-45). As I see it there are the options of he keeps house and pays me off, or I keep house and pay him off (I cant afford to do that), we sell and split the money or the Meyer Order which I stay in house and he get his money in 5 years or so when youngest son is 18 (which I know he doesnt like the sound of). In our time, he has always earnt more than me so has contributed more to house and bills but I did work PT when kids were young. Is a 50/50 split the standard thing? A friend has been telling me I should go 60/40 for me but I dont understand why. We dont have any complex stuff or valuable things, shares etc... Plan to have 50/50 custody.

Obviously I earn a good wage but in SE Engand so property is not cheap! I dont think with a payoff I would have enough to get a 3 bed house unless i rent or do shared ownership.

So thats a big thing at the start, then does anyone have any templates to recommend or an idiots guide to walk through things we need to consider. What we want to do is understand the basics and come up with an outline of what we want before proceeding.

Right above your message is mums net note to go to ADVICE NOW guides.

I was one of people who asked them to put the link in

they have the best guides on how to diy your divorce. At £20 a sot they’re equivalent to just 7 minutes of your average solicitors time!

I used them in 2021, 11 weeks from petition to decree final and £1400 inc vat for all costs for both parties.

Mesher Orders aren't very popular these days. The person moving out would have to rent or move in with someone else and the person staying may be delaying the problem of not being able to get a mortgage in their own right to a point in the future it will be even harder as they have fewer years of working left.
Can you pay the mortgage and bills on your own for the next 5 years anyway? If not, a payout or house move would be the next step.
Remember that all assets are up for splitting and you could negotiate more house equity in exchange for less pension and savings.

First of all get a one off session with a solicitor to find out what you are legally entitled to. From your post it seems you really don't have a clue how much you could be screwed over for. Your earning power has been dramatically reduced just by you having his children and you need to factor that in for a start.

Solicitor first, then sit down with DH.

Marital assets are jointly owned. Hence the assumption of 50/50 splits. But divorce settlements are based on needs. You have a comparative disadvantage coming out of the marriage. Your income is lower and presumably your pension is lower as well.

The settlement will attempt to make up for that. By equalising your pension positions and housing costs. For example you could get a better share of the equity because you cannot borrow as much or to help you pay for a rental until the children are older.

At 47, you shouldn’t ignore how your pension needs.

The biggest issue for you to think about is your needs. This is what will legally be defined as needs. Not what you would prefer or think is right no matter how valid that might be.

Essentially you need a home, owned or rented, near the children’s schools. Depending on the genders the children will either need a room or their own or they could share.

I seriously doubt you will be able to argue for a mesher order if he opposes it.

I would suggest you and your ex have a conversation about what you are both willing to sacrifice to keep your children settled in their current school. Don’t ask anything of him you aren’t prepared to do, it will cause an argument and acrimony. Which isn’t going to move you forward. Identify options and agree you might end up deciding on the least worse option.

Think about

• whether there is an opportunity to move schools for more affordable accommodation. Maybe a year down the line when the older one goes to college.
• nesting, where both of you alternated between a flat and family home
• new partners, which can end up solving a lot of financial problems after divorce despite the MN pearl clutchers dim views.
• How you could both benefit from keeping the current family home as a joint investment vehicle, given that houses appreciate faster than flats.

We are doing DIY divorce. I will move out. Custody will be nominally 50:50 but in reality 95-5 to him initially (our DC are teens, anyway). I would not be happy to wait 5+ years to get equity from house because of capital gains penalty (afaik, kicks in 3 yrs after I move), and personally I need the equity to have any hope of buying again.

Can you qualify for a shared ownership purchase? I thought they were only available to a few occupations.

@peanutbutterkid Capital Gains kicks in after you do not live there for more than 9 months. The three year rule does not apply anymore.... This affects me as I have checked....you get PPR for when you moved in to the property to 9 months after you left the property - if the property is sold after the nine month window then you will incur a capital gain.....only on the months not covered by the PPR.

ah nuts, that is horrible to learn.

What is PPR?

50/50 always

Thanks - another question, what about individual debts, like credit cards? These are not joint ones, mine is in his name and his are in his. As these were used for all stuff (my makeup and clothes as well as kids clothes, food shops, stuff for the home, and for him the same). Do we pool this debt and split it (he will have probably double mine - 6k to 3k)

I gather that PPR = Principal private relief.

I have looked at so many pages & still don't understand what they mean. I hate legalese. :(

Exactly when does this 9 month window start, how does INland revenue count start of "separation". Is it 6 April after we applied to divorce, /or/ is it when we applied for divorce /or/ is it when I move out regardless of when I applied to divorce, /or/ is it when the final order is granted?

And then some pages say that the CGT-free window can be extended to the "end of tax year after separation" : so that might mean, since we applied in January 2023, that the window extends until 5 April 2024? We have very solid reasons (best interests of DC) why we don't want to sell the house until July 2024.

Should have known the Fing tax people would make us have to pay £££££ to lawyers after all.

On plus side, house prices are falling. Should we get our house valued now to document that fall & reduce the CGT?

Does that capital gains thing apply if I’m just renting somewhere else??

I’m worried it’s going to take more than 9 months to sell (moved out 3 months ago already to rented and it’s not even on the market)

I don't get the CGT thing at all. We are joint tenants (ownership). If we STAY joint tenants after the divorce, and I still live here after the divorce is finalised until sale, how can CGT be levied on either of us when we finally sell up and both finally move out?

If the CGT only applies starting 9m after "separation", and suppose the sale is 12m after the CGT window opens, how do they figure out the gain in that period: unless the house has been valued (what would be considered an authoritative valuation method??) right at start point of the CGT window.

How can the CGT window be applied before the final order is granted, because until then all assets are potentially on table to be divided anyway and nobody says you have to tax one side with CGT because of this 'transfer' between almost-ex-spouses of assets before the final order: but most of the legal pages only talk about "start of separation" not "after final order, which implies that the CGT window can apply long before the final order is agreed.

Not kidding when the pages say "complex"

What's even weirder is that if I move out & stbxH buys me out, there's no CGT. But if the property gets sold: I get slapped with CGT penalty.

Imagine W flees marital home because of domestic violence. Takes a few months to file for divorce. Takes many more months to negotiate divorce settlement. Takes even longer for the property to sell , especially if H. drags his feet. W gets penalised by CGT, H pays no CGT, because H. stayed in MH and W didn't. How the F is this result sensible, who thought of this regime??

ok... having read & read... @User0610134057

The situation is very confusing because the rules have been changing constantly in recent years, and lots of web pages are discussing old not near-future situation. I think this might be the summary now:

If you get your divorce finalised after ~6 April 2023, and if the financial order states these terms, the proceeds (set % in FO to each party) of the sale of the family marital home where both parties were resident, is NOT counted towards capital gains liability for at least 3 years after FO is granted. The CG threshold is otherwise lowering, btw, and would apply to any other transfer of assets later than ~5 April of year when divorce was filed for/the leaver party moved out.

However, if you owned a rental property together or separately (or gold or fine art...), that ownership can't be transferred between divorcing spouses (without attracting CG liability) later than 5 April of the year when they filed for divorce.

I must have aspects of that wrong. Anyway, an explicit statement in the FO, sale < 3 years after FO, seems to be our protection, User...57.

Useful links:

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-11632809/Do-pay-capital-gains-tax-home-left-divorce.html

www.wbw.co.uk/positive-changes-to-capital-gains-tax-rules-for-divorcing-couples/

mooreandsmalley.co.uk/insights/knowledge-post/separating-spouses-civil-partners-proposal-new-capital-gains-tax-rules-from-2023-april/

Thank you so much, it would seem a bit bonkers if it penalised couples who just own one house where one person moved out and it took a while to sort out the sale. So what you’ve said makes sense.

Thats excellent news - last time I looked was before the new rules I only had nine months - so this means disposals after 06 April 2023 I claim claim full PRR

glad to help -- but sale of the former-joint-residential property needs to be within 3 yrs & FO must specify the % interest you retain in that property. I'm still figuring out how to do those parts (!)