Help me picture reality of actually being separated and divorced!

[cantdothisforever]

hello all

apologies this is long but trying not to drop feed!

having finally got a part time job that I hope to increase to full time when able I am now in a place to start properly planning to separate from h of 16 years, with 13 and 8 year old

we own a house together that has a fair amount of equity and will be paid off soon as h’s father has given him money from property sale (inheritance really but ahead of time). I feel uncomfortable with this as anything he gives us is held over us but h says it’s not my decision it’s his money and his house and he wants to pay it off.

house is worth around 450,000.

h has been controlling and manipulative since 1st child but i didn’t see it and for years I just thought I was useless/annoying. I worked until 1st child then started re qualification at uninafter 2nd. He essentially made this impossible after a while by refusing to school run etc and doing an excellent job of making feel I was abandoning family and useless.
wantrd to go back to work when youngest started school but the covid came and he said better I was able home and he wouldn’t do homeschooling with kids.

lockdown was awful and his nastiness reached a peak to me and also kids really. Not violent just angry aggressive and nasty but always framed it cleverly to feel we had caused it.
I finally got some online counselling which helped me to get clarity and enough of my confidence back to apply for job in similar area of work though not what I was training for. He insinuates to everyone subtly that I flunked out basically but at least now I have a job!

so essentially I have no pension really though am building one now. I earn around 13,000 at moment 3 days a week. He does drop off and pick up if youngest on my work days. I do everything else-all kids appointments etc and organising which is fine as am pt and have been doing it for years.

he earns around 70,000 and has been paying into pension all career. Works very long hours with little flexibility-getting him to do school run is fraught and always feel like he’s doing me a favour!

we have around 40000 savings.

only other assets cars

eldest now sees father for what he is and stands up to him so he treats her really quite unpleasantly now although he always blames her. I stand up for her when he behaves badly and call him out now which does stop him but he now says child is badly behaved because I call him out and don’t back him up. It’s rubbish. I do back him up if he is reasonable and polite but when he is cruel and nasty I refuse to gaslight my child and normalise it! Youngest is obviously aware of this and usually does the golden child thing to protect himself so obv h sees this as proof it’s only one child and me that has the problem. However in the past when h has screamed and shouted at me poor child has told him to stop and said he doesn’t think daddy is very nice. It’s awful. I want my children to have a dad they love and trust not this man who makes his love conditional and is capable of such nastiness.

i am aware he is very very convincing and adored at work, by friends etc who will literally never believe he has a temper or can be unpleasant. He is the epitome of a kind, generous, thoughtful man to everyone but us and his own mother I have realised recently.

I am going to consult my unions free legal advice next week and probably another family lawyer also but

how do I do this?

in terms of house I guess we will sell and split 50:50 but that doesn’t leave room for a flat anywhere near us or even a few miles away. What experience do others have of this?

I am really the parent who has done and continues to do most actual care but on paper now he does school run and considers himself an amazing dad as do others. Will he get 50/50 residence? I worry so much about leaving my kids with him especially eldest as he is emotionally abusive and manipulative. Even the couple of hours where I’m not at home he finds a way to cause arguments and then blame the kids and I know he behaves worse when I’m not there.

i guess I would love some real life experiences of similar situations and how it worked, what happened?

I know everyone is different and no two divorces are the same but I need some help to get my head around actually doing it!

thank you if you got to the end !!

Divorce and Financial Settlement

To know what a fair split of assets is and to reach a financial settlement divorcing parties need to know what the assets of the marriage are, and what each asset is worth.

Full and frank disclosure is a legal requirement.

What does full and frank disclosure look like?
Look at a Form E - A long document in which each party sets out their assets, income, and financial needs. You can see in it the assets that are taken into consideration upon divorce and financial settlement, for example property (the former marital home), pensions, savings, stocks and shares etc.

It also lists the documents needed that show the value of assets for example CETVs (cash equivalent transfer values of pensions - which can be requested from pension providers). Form Es are exchanged – both parties fill them out, attach the required documentary evidence and send them to each other.

What are the assets worth?
To find out what some assets are worth an independent expert can be used. Property can be valued by an expert - estate agents, pensions by CETV and / or a pension on divorce expert (PODE) report and so on. It is important to decide what needs a valuation by an independent expert and factor in the costs of these.

Pensions can be very valuable – equivalent or more than the value of the former martial home in some cases. Divorcing parties might hold different types of pensions (not like-for-like, so difficult to compare without an expert).

Circumstances might be complex for example an age difference or pensions in payment. One party may have stayed at home to look after children. An actuary can do an in-depth report on pension sharing - what capital and income would be if split 50/50 or a percentage of choice. They can be instructed to factor in retirement ages of the parties. Joint instructions are given to the actuary and they walk parties through the process.

Who gets what?
When deciding how to distribute a couple’s assets and income the court must apply a checklist of factors set by statute. The relevant statute is section 25 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973. These factors will need to be applied in every case, regardless of whether you are engaged in court proceedings or negotiating your own settlement. These are often called the Section 25 factors, which the court will consider when deciding how to distribute assets upon divorce or dissolution.

Section 25 Factors
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1973/18/section/25
images.ctfassets.net/o8luwa28k6k2/2cpp2mEMwBJWJLuzTiTruB/b5397e7459154fad8927826a2c99acdd/section-25-expert-guide.pdf

The income, earning capacity, property, and other financial resource which each of the parties to the marriage has or is likely to have in the foreseeable future is considered.

First consideration is given to the welfare (while a minor) of any child of the family who has not yet attained the age of eighteen.

The needs of each divorcing party are considered and as I understand it 50 / 50 is the starting point – so unequal shares based on circumstances and needs is possible, for example 60 / 40.

Not getting full and frank disclosure?
It is vital to get all the assets “on the table” so that informed financial decision can be made and a fair/just settlement negotiated.

Full and frank financial disclosure is required and usually provided when Form E is exchanged.

If after Form E there is missing information / documentary evidence ‘Questionnaires’ may be exchanged to retrieve it – a list of questions and a list of any missing documentary evidence required which is served on each party.
If still missing after that, ‘Deficiencies’ are exchanged – questions can be asked to clarify and al list of required documentary evidence still missing.

A solicitor’s letter can be sent to retrieve financial information / documentary evidence.

A Court Order can also be applied for to gain financial information / documentary evidence / valuations that are missing / essential.

Advice and info
These offer a free advice session about pensions on divorce and separation www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/divorce-and-separation/divorce-or-dissolution-how-we-can-help-with-your-pension
Free advice line (busy so keep trying) rightsofwomen.org.uk

Guides on divorce and financial settlement
www.advicenow.org.uk/divorce-and-separation
www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-apply-financial-order-without-help-lawyer

Pensions on divorce
www.sharingpensions.co.uk/penaudit3.htm
www.mediateuk.co.uk/the-ultimate-guide-to-pensions-on-divorce/
www.nuffieldfoundation.org/news/new-good-practice-guide-addresses-shortfall-in-understanding-of-how-to-treat-pensions-on-divorce
Valuation of pensions – pensions on divorce expert report (actuary)
www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk no relation – useful website
www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk/pension-data-collection/ templates for information required

Mediation
Mediation can be used to reach agreements.

Some cases are not suitable for mediation e.g., domestic abuse/bullying/coercive control.

www.gov.uk/money-property-when-relationship-ends/mediation
resolution.org.uk/looking-for-help/splitting-up/your-process-options-for-divorce-and-dissolution/family-mediation/

The First Meeting with a Mediator – The MIAM
www.familymediationcouncil.org.uk/family-mediation/assessment-meeting-miam/
“The mediator will tell you whether your case is suitable for mediation, and you can decide whether you want to proceed with mediation or explore another option for resolving issues. The mediator can also give you information about other services which provide help and support.”

Legal advice
This link gives you an indication of hourly rate for solicitors
www.gov.uk/guidance/solicitors-guideline-hourly-rates
Some organisations offer free advice from solicitors and barristers rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/ On their FAQs page…”Our Legal Officers and Volunteer legal advisors are all solicitors and barristers”.
Some family solicitors offer an in initial free consultation and some a fixed fee rather than hourly.
Some barristers can be directly instructed e.g., via Clerksroom Direct
Mumsnet suggest www.advicenow.org.uk/tags/separation-divorce-and-dissolution-civil-partnerships

Domestic Abuse
www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-abuse-how-to-get-help
In danger?
Call 999. Teach children how to do this.
How to call the police when you can’t speak
www.policeconduct.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/research-learning/Silent_solution_guide.pdf
Leaving the relationship safely
www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/the-survivors-handbook/i-want-to-leave-my-relationship-safely/
Legal Aid
www.gov.uk/legal-aid/domestic-abuse-or-violence

Look after the old(er) woman you will become, financially :)

My reality - life is so much better in every way.

FYI - As he's abusive, you don't need to go down the mediation route. The divorce process itself will likely be grim as they don't like it when you take back control. The starting point is 50:50. Don't forget his pension.

Hang in there, the end result is worth it.

I very much doubt you will get 50/50 if his father put a chunk in the house. It good luck with it all you deserve some happiness and stability for you and the kids

You probably won't get 50:50 of house due to his inheritance? But pension and savings would be split. Also maintenance and you would be entitled to top up benefits.

I split with my ex 17 years ago. I kept the house and gave him 50% of the equity (I extended the mortgage) my parents had to guarantee it for me as I was a low earner. It was tough initially as he was abusive and did not want to split. Then he met someone else and we settled into a cordial relationship. Now I never see him as kids are adults but on odd occasions we do we are fine. It was definitely worth it. I had 9 unhealthy/unhappy years with him. A couple of years stress after break up but it was interspersed as the rest of the time I was much happier. Since then I rarely think about him.

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I know I have get myself ne kids away from him, he just gets worse each year so it’s not going to improve.

if I didn’t have kids I walk and leave him everything to be honest just to never have to have him near me. For my kids sake I wish I could protect them and get them away from him but from reading on here for years the reality seems to be that convincing emotionally abusive men are granted at least equal access no matter how bad that is for them kids. So I’ve got to try and get a split that means they’re provided for by both of us ultimately so all the info is really useful and working this out.

its good to hear that it was worth it in the end so thank you!

Over the age of 12 children get a day in who they live with and who they see, so your eldest may be ok if you can continue to support her. I doubt DP will like it. And don't some school runs whilst working long inflexible hours is hardly conducive to 50 50 parenting so you may find they remain with you most of the time as default, but you need proper advice. Good luck x

*say

Your 13yo can choose not to see her df if she wishes. By that age, it is her call.

He sounds truly horrible. Good luck xx

Thanks all

if she can choose she absolutely would not want to go with him. I feel awful for her though being in that situation. And on top of that she will see her sibling have a seemingly great time as I think he will probably try and make her feel bad and simultaneously accuse me of parental alienation.

its frightening that trying to remove my children from someone like this is seen as wrong. Honestly yes I want to alienate my kids from him! If anyone else did these things in front of or to my kids they’d be arrested. But I’m aware he will use this as a tool against me.

i have a feeling he will suddenly be able to have a huge amount of flexibility at work, I suspect after spinning a story of what an awful person I am. It suits him at the moment as he can be the super employee that never says no but I think he’d happily take on the role of poor man who now can’t put in the hours due to horrid wife. And he works in what he himself has described as a male chauvinist environment with two bosses who both had bad divorces and blame the women.

thank you all for your support there’s lots to think about and get sorting

See a solicitor - some do 30 mins free, some will add their fees to the divorce settlement so you don't have to pay up front. They will be able to give you a good sense of what's possible given your circumstances

Depending on the age of your children, it might not be suitable for 50/50 care in which case you'd get maintenance - calculator here www.gov.uk/calculate-child-maintenance

I'm asking about the children's ages as if they are old enough they have a right to input in where they want to be and sounds like DD in particular might not want to be with her dad 50% of the time

I'd keep this close to your chest until you have a plan as your husband is likely to ramp up his manipulation to try to stop you leaving and so it will be more unpleasant

Good luck op

Make sure you factor in his pension, because you don't have one.

Oh - for me personally mediation was brilliant as exH always wanted to portrait himself as hard done by so wasn't an arsehole on front of the mediator. But make sure you go in with a clear idea of what's possible and what you want

Thank you yes I’m going to have a call with a solicitor that union provide on my day off when he’s not in.

I absolutely want to have as much planned as possible before telling him anything. I deeply dislike being sneaky but I really don’t trust him. He won’t have a reasonable reaction.

I really don’t want mediation with him. He is very very convincing and manipulative and I think genuinely believes he is the one being mistreated. I’ve tried over the years to get him to see what he does is abusive but he just seems to then find a new less obviously abusive manner to create same effect. He gaslights a lot and I know that is a term bandied about a lot but he really does. He tries it on my daughter now and I always calmly point out the truth of a situation but he still clings to his version.

I wish I didn’t need any of his money at all but realise this is the situation I’ve put myself and kids in so have to get on with it.

thanks again everyone

The good thing about mediation is the mediator is there to act in both your interests and provide a legal view. So i think its quite hard to manipulate, especially if you are well prepared.

Also it's not really about a fair split between the two of you, it's about an equitable living standard for your children.

You earn much less, have no pension. So he will probably end up giving you more of the equity in the house to account for that.

If his pension is particularly good then he might let you keep the house in exchange for his pension staying with him.

It's not "his money", you are a family at the moment and its a family pot to be split fairly. So don't feel like you are treating him badly by going after what you percieve as his assets

Those are good points thank you. I need to toughen up I think. He already blames me for the things he thinks are wrong/missing in his life so I know he is likely to feel that I am trying to ruin his future too but I need to remind myself that if he hadn’t behaved this way then I wouldn’t be divorcing him.