Husband is leaving me. I’m very overwhelmed by the practicalities, where do I start?😭

[DivorceConfusion]

Married for 10 years, together for 20 years. Three primary school aged children. We both work (though I work part-time and earn much less) and jointly own our house (mortgaged).

My husband wants to leave and on top of feeling emotionally crushed I also feel so overwhelmed by the practicalities. Do we need to be divorced before we sell the house? How do I find out what benefits I would be entitled to (I currently get none).

We are hoping the split will be amicable, but do we still need lawyers? I feel like I need to get some really good financial advice from a professional but I don’t know how to find such a person (and how I could afford it).

I know I should be able to just Google all this stuff but I’m so overwhelmed (also can’t sleep, eat etc.).

If you’ve been in my shoes and have come out the other side, if you could offer any words of wisdom I would be so grateful.

Sorry that sounds like a tough situation. Do you have friends you can talk through your feelings with? Anyone close who has been through similar? Sometimes at the start you just need to vent. Mumsnet is a good forum for that too.

It can be a challenging situation but you will get through it. Best advice from experience is do what you can to de-stress and keep yourself as happy as possible- whether that's walks, hot baths, whatever to minimise your stress.

Resign yourself that this is gonna cost money. Is the marriage completely dead or is marriage counselling an option?

If divorce is a certainty you need to go fact finding- how much money is in bank accounts, collect all evidence you can re pensions etc and any assets. Some people manage to divorce without solicitors but wouldn't advise it as really you want them for financial consent orders etc and to make sure you get a fair deal. It can be incredibly overwhelming to start with, but start with fact finding and some solicitors offer a free consultation- and it isn't nearly as daunting as it sounds once you get started.

From experience some solicitors are pricier than others so id recommend speaking to a few. You will get through this.

Did his deciding to leave come out of the blue or have there been issues in the marriage?

The women I know who were persuaded by their H’s to avoid solicitor’s fees and do a DIY divorce were ripped off in the divorce. They got far less than half of the marital assets.

Go see a solicitor before you agree to anything re the house. Your kids are young enough to enable you to stay, obviously if you'll be able to afford it.

Look at the cms website to see how much he'll pay. Look at benefits sites to see what's available.

My kids had left, we sold the house, split everything. The only issues were the pensions.

Can you nest? Children stay in the house - you both work fulltime and either buy or rent another property close by?

you do need to see a solicitor for pensions etc as you may be entitled to his or a large share or a percentage share

This.

See a lawyer for sure even if you keep it amicable. No reason it should all be on his terms.

We did mediation which was cheaper. Assuming there are assets, yes, you definitely need solicitors/mediation. It's a minefield with so so much to think about. Take it slow, research.

Thank you so much for the advice. I’m quite good at self care but nevertheless it’s an overwhelming situation. I do have close friends I can talk to.
I will look into getting a free consultation with a solicitor.
I’m normally very practical and proactive but this whole situation is just paralysing me. I really didn’t want to divorce, but his mind is made up and frankly I don’t want to stay with someone who doesn’t want to be with me.
Is it not possible just to share assets and keep our own pensions? (We both have good pensions). I guess I will find out from the solicitor.
Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply.

You can do whatever you want - split everything 50:50, split the assets keep own pensions, mediation, all via solicitors .... up to you both.

I'd suggest valuing the pensions (cetv) before you decide though.

But what if one of you has a trillion pound pension and one of you 20p?
It all goes in the pot.

Yes you’re right about the pension. I don’t even know how much his pension is worth. I don’t think it’s great (self employed). Mine is not too bad (public sector) but I earn a lot less.

I just tried googling solicitors in my area and so many different ones come up, I don’t how how to choose (which are good, which are expensive). This is so unlike me😭 I make big decisions all the time. I just seem paralysed. I don’t know how to take control of this situation. My life already feels so overwhelming with the kids, work, elderly parents, house. How am I going to find the energy and time for this? How does anyone do it? I’m just ranting now because I’m scared and I’m sad that my marriage has failed and that I wasn’t enough for him😭

Gingerbread single parent association is a very good place for helpful advice. You’ll find it through Google. x

You will get through it. It is hard when it is a bolt out of the blue - makes it way harder emotionally i think when you don't see it coming but over time it will get easier. I think some people don't speak to their husband or wife at all about their thoughts and feelings about wanting out of the marriage and the resulting shock on the other person is just horrendous.

Yes totally understand why you wouldn't want to be with someone who is not valuing you but if you didn't want the marriage to end or didnt see it coming, you might want to ask your husband to consider marriage counselling if you haven't already, as atleast then you won't have regret later on that you didn't try or suggest it. Then you have done all you can and the rest is on him, which i think can make it easier emotionally longer term.

If it helps reassure, i didn't see my divorce coming and wanted my ex to change rather than divorce and am now with a much nicer man and dont miss my ex at all. Sometimes these things are for the best in the long run, even though it won't feel like it right now.

Thank you all so much for your kind words I’m crying now. I’m just in shock I guess. He had been saying it for a while and I thought we were working things out, we also had counselling (which I didn’t find that helpful) but I thought we were working things out. I just want to hide until everything is all resolved. I’m not scared of a future without him (I’m quite independent) but the whole process terrifies me. Anyway thank you so much for your advice.

Look on resolution website
they have good solicitors and could possibly follow collaborative approach if you’re both able to be reasonably amicable

its early days, you’ll have good and bad , but always worth remembering its not about winning : losing its about coming out the other side with children who are loved by both parents and parents who can co parent / and that means negotiating and compromising on both sides

also, dont spend tens thousands to gain a few !

Such wise words @millymollymoomoo thank you. We’re both very adamant we want it to be amicable so I hope we can make that work (maybe naive).

I was where you are now 6 years ago, and I was terrified. However, it all worked out ok in the end.

Get yourself a good solicitor, mine was a woman and she was excellent because she really got how vulnerable my position was. I didn’t take my ex to the cleaners but I got a fair settlement that meant I could raise our children without them being disadvantaged by the fact their parents marriage didn’t work out.

You mustn’t sell the house before you have agreed your financial settlement. Your divorce doesn’t need to be finalised however before you sell but you do need formal agreement as to who is entitled to what share. Your solicitor will get both of you to fill out a Form E which will detail every expenditure and you both will need to submit a full financial disclosure - income/pensions/savings. Hopefully you will then work out the settlement amicably but if you can’t then there is mediation (my ex refused 🙄) and in my case we ended up having 2 court hearings and only narrowly escaped a third and final when my ex finally stopped playing silly buggers and realised just how much this was costing us both…

I can recommend my solicitor if you are based in East Anglia, however I found mine by googling good divorce solicitors and reading everything I could about them. I actually decided on one solicitor who appeared to be excellent but my ex instructed him before I could. I dodged a bullet, he advised my ex badly on a few things.

I hope you both continue to be amicable however the divorce process can be tough going and if you can’t agree on something then it can be quite inflammatory. Having said that, not all ex’s are bellends like mine was so hopefully it will be smooth sailing.

There we’re times I never thought I’d make it through to the end but I did and my god I’m much more independent (and happier!) than I ever believed possible. You can do this!

Just to add, I saw one solicitor that offered a free half hour… she was like a viper and almost rubbed her hands together telling me how I could bankrupt my husband by going after his business! I quickly realised that wouldn’t benefit me as he wouldn’t be able to pay maintenance or provide a home for his children when they were with him - luckily I gave her a wide berth but I was bitter enough at the time to have potentially been sucked in by her.
My advice would be to go with somebody who wants to ensure you get what you need but doesn’t want to destroy your ex in the process.

Re – Divorce and Financial Settlement

There are two aspects. Divorce and Financial Settlement.

You have time to get the information you need, and the following might help - when you are ready to process it.

Guides here: www.advicenow.org.uk/divorce-and-separation

Divorce aspect is generally more straightforward than financial settlement aspect. Info on Financial settlement below.

Legal advice
It is possible to act as a litigant in person and to get info and legal advice when needed. A solicitor or barrister can give you info and advice, and represent you. They are usually paid by the hour. Some offer a fixed fee retainer for some aspects of the process.

This link gives you an indication of hourly rate for solicitors
www.gov.uk/guidance/solicitors-guideline-hourly-rates

Some organisations offer free advice from solicitors and barristers rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/ On their FAQs page…”Our Legal Officers and Volunteer legal advisors are all solicitors and barristers”.

Some barristers can be directly instructed e.g., via Clerksroom Direct
Mumsnet suggest www.advicenow.org.uk/tags/separation-divorce-and-dissolution-civil-partnerships

Financial Settlement
To know what a fair split of assets is and to reach a financial settlement divorcing parties need to know what the assets of the marriage are, and what each asset is worth.

Important to get all the assets "on the table before" and to know their value before making decisions.

Getting Full and Frank Disclosure
Look at a Form E. A long document in which each party sets out their assets, income, and financial needs. You can see in it the assets that are taken into consideration upon divorce and financial settlement, for example property (the former marital home), pensions, stocks and shares etc. It also lists the documents needed that show the value of assets for example CETVs (cash equivalent transfer values of pensions - which can be requested from pension providers).

Knowing the value of assets
To find out what some assets are worth an independent expert can be used. Property can be valued by an expert - estate agents, pensions by CETV and / or a pension on divorce expert (PODE) report and so on. It is important to decide what needs a valuation by an independent expert and factor in the costs of these. Pensions can be very valuable – equivalent or more than the value of the former martial home in some cases. Divorcing parties might hold different types of pensions (not like-for-like, so difficult to compare without an expert). Circumstances might be complex for example an age difference or pensions in payment. One party may have stayed at home to look after children.

Not getting Full and Frank Disclosure? (in case this happens)
Full and frank financial disclosure is required and usually provided when Form E is exchanged. If after Form E there is missing information / evidence / documentation Questionnaires may be exchanged to retrieve it.
If still missing after that Deficiencies are exchanged to get it.
A solicitor’s letter can be sent to retrieve financial information evidence.
A Court Order can also be applied for to gain financial information / evidence / valuations that is missing / essential.

Deciding who gets what
The income, earning capacity, property, and other financial resource which each of the parties to the marriage has or is likely to have in the foreseeable future is taken into account. First consideration is given to the welfare (while a minor) of any child of the family who has not yet attained the age of eighteen.

The needs of each divorcing party are taken into account and as I understand it 50 / 50 is the starting point – so unequal shares based on circumstances and needs is possible, for example 60 / 40.

When deciding how to distribute a couple’s assets and income the court has to apply a checklist of factors set by statute. The relevant statute is section 25 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973. These factors will need to be applied in every case, regardless of whether you are engaged in court proceedings or negotiating your own settlement. These are often called the Section 25 factors, which the court will take into account when deciding how to distribute assets upon divorce or dissolution.

Section 25 Factors
images.ctfassets.net/o8luwa28k6k2/2cpp2mEMwBJWJLuzTiTruB/b5397e7459154fad8927826a2c99acdd/section-25-expert-guide.pdf

Advice and Info
These offer a free advice session about pensions on divorce and separation www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/divorce-and-separation/divorce-or-dissolution-how-we-can-help-with-your-pension

Free advice line (busy so keep trying) rightsofwomen.org.uk

Guides on divorce and financial settlement
www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-apply-financial-order-without-help-lawyer

Pensions on divorce
www.sharingpensions.co.uk/penaudit3.htm
www.mediateuk.co.uk/the-ultimate-guide-to-pensions-on-divorce/
www.nuffieldfoundation.org/news/new-good-practice-guide-addresses-shortfall-in-understanding-of-how-to-treat-pensions-on-divorce
Valuation of pensions – pensions on divorce expert report
www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk no relation – useful website
www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk/pension-data-collection/ templates for information required

Look after the old(er) woman you will become, financially.

Wow @ResponsetoDivorceConfusion thank you so much, that’s so helpful. I’m copying those notes.

It’s funny because I trained for a long time to be on a good career path, and so I know I could support myself and the children financially. Still for the last 10 years I’ve been mostly part time (with long extended maternity breaks) which has obviously impacted on career progression, earning potential and pension. Before kids me and H earned the same, now he earns twice as much. I thought I was doing the smart sensible feminist thing by getting into a good career but ultimately due to three maternity leaves and part time working I have left myself pretty vulnerable. I don’t regret the times I spent with the children of course but I am having to face those choices now.

I didn't use solicitors as I already knew I wanted 50:50 of everything and that's straightforward.
We used a company called amicable who draw up the consent order after a few mediation sessions. I'd recommend them as long as you really are amicable about things and neither is trying to screw the other over.
Do get all assets valued first though - he may not want to share the pension, or you may want more than 50%

oh, you can arrange any % share with amicable, just realised maybe it sounds like they only do that. They just formalise whatever you agree

Firstly breathe, don't panic, it will be okay.

Keeping things amicable and the dialogue open will make things easier, cheaper and long term make coparenting easier but do make sure you know what you are entitled to.

When you sell your house is up to you to a certain extent. My recommendation is to file for divorce first (online, can be jointly) then start the process of selling your house. You will need a consent order drawn up to divide the financial side and as you have children you will need a mediation session to sort out the practical child arrangements. You can mostly do the consent order yourselves if your finances are straight forward, online you can find the template to list all your assets, you then need to decide how to split it, taking into account housing for you if you earn less - the advice of a solicitor may be helpful but not always necessary (I have used an online service instead).

With benefits you need to register for uc and you can then receive what you are entitled to, you will be expected to increase your hours once children are at secondary school.

Unfortunately this is really common so plenty of others will have stories to share but do remember that it is possible to do this smoothly and we have save thousands not using solicitors.

I've been where you are. My advice would be to first agree what will happen with children. Will your stbexh want 50/50 care or will you have more? You need to decide that first between you because it will have a big impact on your finances going forward. Once you've worked that out and hopefully he will agree shared care you need to decide if one week you have kids then following week he has them or you do 3 days one week and 4 days following week. You need to try to organise you going back to work full time once all kids at school. You can get after school care. On days children are with stbexh he is responsible for school drop offs, meals, laundry, after school activities and meals. As he is self employed he should be ok with this. If your stbexh has kids 50 percent of time you won't get maintenance and will have to split child benefit. Split pensions 50/50 and going forward work full time as soon as you can to keep up pension. If you don't keep up pension contributions you will have a miserable retirement.