Exh refusing to return DD for another day

[helplesshopeless]

My exh is threatening to keep my daughter another night tomorrow (she is at his 6/14 nights and comes back to me on Sunday nights after his weekend).

He says if I come to pick her up he will call the police. What’s the best way to deal with this? I don’t want to unsettle her by turning up at his but I can’t let him just decide to change the pattern. She's expecting to come back to me for dinner tomorrow as normal. How do I go about this wisely? Do I just file for a court order if he doesn't bring her back?

He has PR so the police won't be interested if I call.

The other way around... but my friend was married to an abusive wife. Two children. She has fought and fought to keep him below 50/50. He also had 6/14. To be fair, he's stuck to the agreement even though he wanted 50/50, and took it to court. It took 13 months of legal wrangling, £thousands in solicitors bills, and enormous stress. He won the 50/50 last week. Obviously every circumstance is different, so you might win. You also might not.

She's there with him right now so I'll just be waiting to see if he returns her tomorrow.

@WandaWonder this current pattern was agreed through solicitors! Which he loves say is just a loose agreement and not legally binding, he can do what he wants etc etc.

I was hoping to hold out on the extra night at his until September, at which point she'd have had a year at school and be more independent. And I know at that point I've barely any chance at all of arguing against 50-50 in court so that would have been my best case scenario.

First hearing is often 6-8 weeks away but often it's non-attended and the court just makes directions (without anyone there) to do before next hearing based on what the cafcass safeguarding letter recommends.
Perhaps apply to court and explain in application that currently she is with you most but ex is unilaterally changing this and keeping her. Then if it is 50/50 by then the court will know why. A status quo isn't the ultimate decider - it's a factor but not an overriding one and most important is what's in DD's best interests.
Unless you can show evidence that you've been a victim of abuse you'll have to attend a Mediation Info & Assessment meeting to get court form signed off.
Do apply for Child maintenance though and make sure you tell court / cafcass that you didn't apply before because of his threats.

50/50 is not the outcome very often - many judges still feel a different arrangement works better. Each case is specific.

@NoInvitesEver thank you, that is helpful. And interesting re 50/50 not often being the outcome, as all the advice I've ever received, both professional and anecdotal, has been that 50/50 is very likely and it would be very difficult to argue against. Can I ask if you know any good solicitors in the north west (or if you are one yourself)?!

He's right it's not legally binding. So say nothing, keep hold of her and get an emergency shearing to make it legally binding as he isn't abiding by the current agreement and causing distress to DD.

Tell DD age appropriate truth. Daddy wanted you to stay an extra night but Mummy didn't know.

Not sure of solicitors in NW. Location not critical as solicitors send local barristers to hearings often.
The solicitors agreement isn't binding BUT it is hard evidence of what you both agreed was in your DD's best interests at that time and now he's changing it.
A lot of professionals recognise 50/50 isn't best in every case. You need to emphasise why the current arrangement is best - it'll all be focused on DD's best interests.

And might be worth speaking to police - sometimes they will get involved, depends who you get. If you explain he was abusive and is refusing to return DD per a written agreement, they might possibly help but they don't have to. If they refuse, nothing lost.

I know this is annoying for you
but what’s your issue with 59:50 as he already has 6 in 14?
and if your daughter is happy there what is the actual problem ? Other than him being an area to you?

in this scenario. It’s likely the court may well add in the extra night

i don’t want to make light if it and can see why you’re upset but if your daughter is cared for, is ok while there and he already has 6 nights a forthright is there really any real harm in one more?

i don’t want to make light if it and can see why you’re upset but if your daughter is cared for, is ok while there and he already has 6 nights a forthright is there really any real harm in one more?

I know, and I'm really trying to remove from my processing of this the huge irritation of him just doing what he wants and being so incredibly rude and horrible about it.

I just really hate this pattern that she has, I think a young child should have one main home and plenty of access to the other parent, but of course he'd never agree to that (unless he was the main home - not happening as he has a horrible temper problem). The only way I could try and cling onto some sort of consistency for her was that she was never regularly away from me as part of the usual pattern for more than two sleeps.

He's going on holiday in feb for two weeks and is demanding my weekend when he gets back, and a load of other time to make up for what he's missing. He's choosing to go away without her! I was happy to let him have my weekend so she could spend some time with him after being away but the wider proposed schedule for that month to cater around that shift is so ridiculous that I'm not agreeing to it. Again he's said he doesn't need my permission and that his proposal is what's happening. This is just another example of him pushing and doing what he wants and I felt like the 2/3 night thing was my last way of holding off on the floodgates of him just trampling all over everything.

@helplesshopeless stop acting helpless and get a solicitor to help you. Him going away without her through choice won't look good either so now is a good time to discuss all of this with someone that can help. I suggest you spend all day looking for one. Some do 30 mins free.

Agree - definitely get a solicitor. He's dictating everything and if it's not agreed, doing it anyway.
If your DD is away from him while he's on holiday that's not 50/50 either. Note down the whole pattern over say last 6 or 12 months or less if separated less time so you can tell CMS if you do an application.
Some cases are 50/50 but that's not what's been happening and if you feel your DD needs different be ready to say why. The actual cases that are genuinely 50:50 are not as common as people suggest. I say this as a professional in the system for the last 22 years. Yes, it happens, but many judges are not fans or there's reasons why it's not in child's best interests in the circumstances. Some children cope better than others with certain arrangements.
An order will be rigid and isn't often the best solution but needed where someone is dictating. An order won't "compensate" him if he goes away without her during his time!
A shared lives with order IS common as terminology BUT the split doesn't mean equal time - might be 6/8 or 5/9 or whatever but shared living doesn't always mean 50/50.
No one can guarantee he won't get 50/50 if it goes to court and sometimes it depends who the judge/magistrates are that day but at least he won't be able to keep on with these shenanigans once you have one.

He's walking all over you and you're allowing it!
You need to find your power and sort this out legally.
I wouldn't be letting him have her until you have things legally sorted out. Stop letting him bully you!!!

I don't think stopping contact is the right way to go about things. All that will happen is more resentment and conflict will be caused which is not good for the child. OP has confirmed that the dad is not abusive towards their child so there would be no reason to stop contact, other than to try and assert authority over the other parent.

Having a 50/50 arrangement would be 1 extra night with the father. Is it really such a big deal if she is happy there for another night? It's not worth the expense to fight it out over 2 extra nights a month.

I do believe it would be best to get a Child Arrangements Order in this situation but if you can both agree on what that order contains then it will be a far simpler process.

I was pretty sure I recognised who you were from the situation yesterday now I'm sure.

Don't send her for next contact emergency court order application. Even if he gets 50:50 it will be set in stone and he can't bully you anymore.

He will carry in bullying and controlling you forever so foot down, shit hot solicitor engaged, court order done and dusted.

Mediation is not suitable in abusive situation and his ongoing emotional abuse is clear. You had a mediated agreement via solicitors and he won't stick to it.

He goes away, tough shit.

This guy has a nasty temper problem and bad mouths this girls Mum and is now refusing to return her home as the DD is expecting.

Sure it's "mild" abuse, but it is cruel and unnecessary and done to throw his weight around without a care how it will upset his DD.

Go to court and put a claim in via the cms.

Court don't take lightly to him not paying either.

I would actually do something different I would text him

You are refusing to return our daughter on her scheduled day to return to me. You are breaking previous agreement and the official arrangements we have both previously agreed. If you take this course of action, as you have threatened I will no longer we able to trust you with future child arrangements. Children need their parents to be logical and follow agreements in place to work together. ….. is expecting to return here at ….. time today please act accordingly in her interests at return her at that time. Thank you

do not engage with any reply other then to copy and repeat the paper trail.

expect your text messages to go before a judge and think about what someone else reads

if I read ‘thanks off to the pub’ I’d think - right so Dad is trying to provide a nice home and mum Wants to get pissed!!

think think think

hold the line and just repeat over and over the above text

if he doesn’t return her

simply state the fact

despite my previous texts you have not returned x to spend the normal time as expected with her mother. This is not acceptable or fair to either myself or x and you are in breach of our long term and long standing agreement.

I'd agree with Eastereggs. Text him and say that's fine, you're going out for Sunday lunch with X. You'll be back at 5. Have a lovely day. See him later.

@RandomMess It's not an emergency to the court though as the child is safely with someone who has PR and no court order has been broken. It would be a Child Arrangements Order she would need to apply for on form C100

A judge won’t take kindly to him going on holiday.

let him go and try to be flexible but make a point that you are being flexible eg

I know you have booked a holiday without consulting me on the child care arrangements. You will miss your weekends - I will agree on this occasion to you having the weekend of 14 th feb but you must not threatened or bully me into a swap. If you miss your weekend - you miss it. And contact will be at the next available time. If you d wish to arrange these types of swaps you must ask as early as possible in advance and if it is convenient I will consider it. But you don’t get to demand or bully a swap. I also have plans on my time with x and for consistency and a least stressful environment you need to stick to your time where possible. Any requests should be done politely with plenty of time and you need to understand the answer may well be no.

You think a child is better with one parent with regular access to the other - as long as it’s you i guess. What if it was the other way ?

I know I appear goady and I’m not trying to be but is this really about your daughter or about you?

btw your ex sounds horrid but he may actually genuinely love her and want her as much as you do ?

Definitely NOT this!!!

This is an awful suggestion!

He could use that against you in any custody case, ie "she was glad I kept our daughter as it meant she could go to the pub instead"

I don't see an option other than formalising with the courts. He already does what he wants and will continue to. At least with a court order if he tries to play loose with the arrangement he can be breeched. I'd take that security and sooner rather than later given it's already quite on his terms

The best advice on here is not to react to what is most likely provocation. When he is challenged he will have a justification and evidence he isn’t withholding her for more than one day.

If you must reply just acknowledge what he has told you. Don’t say anything about going down the pub it will work against you in his mind. Don’t threaten to take action. It will escalate things as he is someone who is volatile. Just say thank you for letting me know.

It sounds like you want the assurance of a court order. He has said he isn’t happy with the mediation outcome. Then it is up to one or both of you to take this into court for resolution.

Put your energy into constructing a solid argument about what is best for your child. It is true that if 50:50 works for the child it will be agreed. In most cases it isn’t asked for by the NRP or it is practical for the child.