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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Husband wants to divorce

25 replies

nicnac8801 · 07/12/2022 13:49

Hi
Looking for advice as I have no idea what to do.
DH and I not been getting on for a while and last night he said he wants us to divorce. As much as this hurts that he doesn't want to try and work things out I know I can't change his mind.
We have 2 Dc of primary school age.
We are both on the mortgage.
He earns way more than me and I wouldn't be able to pay all the bills in this house on my own.
What do I do? My head is a mess. A friend told me I am able to stay in the home until youngest turns 18 and then sell and he would have to pay towards the mortgage? Is this right? But wouldn't that stop him from getting his own mortgage? What if he doesn't agree to that?

OP posts:
pointythings · 07/12/2022 14:29

What your friend describers is called a Mesher order and they are rare - do not count on getting one. It's more likely that the house will be sold. Aside from that you will both need to disclose what you own in terms of assets - pensions and savings are part of that - and the asset split will be based on needs. Do you work? Are you the main carer of the DC? Will your STBX want a 50/50 split? You need to contact a solicitor and get advice.

Crazycrazylady · 07/12/2022 15:19

At a very very top like level. Courts generally add up all the assets including equity and split them between the two of you. Maintenance would the. Be awarded depending on earnings, age of children, etc.
Spousal maintenance is rare and really only awarded when the marriage is of very long duration, one partner is a very high earner and a partner has significantly sacrificed to support the other

BarbedButterfly · 07/12/2022 15:26

He needs to be adequately housed too for when he has the children. Mersher order was denied to my friend and house was sold as courts favour a clean break now. You would then either need to buy him out or sell. Also if you stayed you would probably need to pay mortgage yourself. Spousal awarded less often and each person expected to maximise their earning potential.

Best bet really is to get proper legal advice as they will be able to go through all assets and tell you what is best

BetterFuture1985 · 07/12/2022 16:18

nicnac8801 · 07/12/2022 13:49

Hi
Looking for advice as I have no idea what to do.
DH and I not been getting on for a while and last night he said he wants us to divorce. As much as this hurts that he doesn't want to try and work things out I know I can't change his mind.
We have 2 Dc of primary school age.
We are both on the mortgage.
He earns way more than me and I wouldn't be able to pay all the bills in this house on my own.
What do I do? My head is a mess. A friend told me I am able to stay in the home until youngest turns 18 and then sell and he would have to pay towards the mortgage? Is this right? But wouldn't that stop him from getting his own mortgage? What if he doesn't agree to that?

It depends on your circumstances but the advice you get from friends is invariably going to be bad/wrong/ill advised. Yes there are laws and yes courts may or may not award things in the circumstances they are presented, but ultimately the law can only protect you so much and therefore divorce is just as much a negotiation.

If you got yourself into a situation where you could live in the house until your youngest was 18 and your ex had to pay some of the mortgage too, that would be extremely disadvantageous to him and it would be in his best interests both to fight you all the way to a final hearing (the considerable expense this will involve will be a far lower barrier to him because agreeing to what you want would be extremely prejudicial to his interests) and to then seek to undermine the order in the future.

I was threatened with a Mesher Order by my ex-wife. The mortgage on the property was so large that she had no prospect of ever taking me off it or affording the payments on her own. She would have needed the order for 15 years and by the time I got my share (she was offering 25%) I would have been too old to buy anything myself. Now, in theory she could have taken this to court and might have been successful in getting an order, although the odds were perhaps slightly against her (suitable accommodation for her and the children that cost 25% less than the FMH existed that she could buy on her own provided she maximised her own earning capacity). But this is where negotiation comes in. The courts can order what they like but what they can't do is motivate a person to carry on working in a stressful job for no reward. I made it clear to my ex-wife that whilst I would show "good conduct" by continuing to do my job I had no motivation to keep it and would probably get sacked sooner or later because I wouldn't make any effort to be professional, do a good job etc. The real clincher though is that my wife didn't want to be put in a position where she would be expected to maximise her own earning capacity. In theory she was capable of working in a graduate profession earning at least £40k within 5 years so even if she got a Mesher she would have been expected to get me off the mortgage in 5 years, so the order she was likely to have been awarded would have been useless to her. In the end she took the capital and downsized and I kept the pension.

The same applies to spousal and child maintenance. Child maintenance is generally less controversial because it is a fixed amount for the children and only really becomes an issue if a recipient shows bad conduct by spending the money on themselves instead of the children. That's unlikely in practice, as children are expensive! Spousal maintenance is more controversial. Again, my ex-wife wanted this because she didn't want to work. My solicitor basically made it clear to her that if she was obliged to mitigate her own situation and again the point about her earning capacity was relevant. If she chose not to get back into the workplace within a couple of years, that was going to be her problem, not mine. Again, she could have gone to court but I made it clear that in the very unlikely scenario that she got substantive maintenance for more than a year on the grounds she wasn't working, I wouldn't bother working either. The courts again can order whatever they like, but they can't force you to work.

If you want a good divorce, my recommendation is not to do as my ex-wife did and start with the question "what am I entitled to" and then work out how little you can do for yourself. Instead, start from the point of "how much can I help myself" and then seek to bridge the gap between that and your needs. It's very unlikely you will need a Mesher Order until the children are 18 and also not in your own best interests either. It's more than likely you can downsize to something suitable and earn enough to have a mortgage on your own in a much shorter timeframe. There are specialist brokers who can get you a mortgage with UC and CM which won't be available to you when the Mesher Order ends. Downsizing now gives you a much better chance of owning your own home forever.

DrMarciaFieldstone · 07/12/2022 16:20

A friend told me I am able to stay in the home until youngest turns 18 and then sell and he would have to pay towards the mortgage? Is this right?

No, in most cases this is unlikely to be granted. You should seek legal advice asap on how to proceed.

freyamay74 · 07/12/2022 16:30

@BetterFuture1985 excellent post.

It seems to be a bit of a common misconception that the 'primary carer' can stay in the marital home until the youngest turns 18 (or I've even heard from some people 'until the youngest has finished education- which could be into their twenties.)

A colleague of mine was in a similar situation: she assumed she could stay in the home, with her ex-H contributing towards the mortgage simply because he earned twice as much. What she didn't factor in was that she wanted to continue working 3 days a week (children were in primary school so no reason she couldn't work full time.) Her ex-H made it very clear he wouldn't carry on busting his guts earning full time in a demanding job and bank roll a mortgage for a house that only she would carry on living in.
^
Luckily they got some good advice and made sensible and more equitable arrangements before it got as far as the courtroom, which is where it's really the lawyers who benefit^

BetterFuture1985 · 07/12/2022 17:48

freyamay74 · 07/12/2022 16:30

@BetterFuture1985 excellent post.

It seems to be a bit of a common misconception that the 'primary carer' can stay in the marital home until the youngest turns 18 (or I've even heard from some people 'until the youngest has finished education- which could be into their twenties.)

A colleague of mine was in a similar situation: she assumed she could stay in the home, with her ex-H contributing towards the mortgage simply because he earned twice as much. What she didn't factor in was that she wanted to continue working 3 days a week (children were in primary school so no reason she couldn't work full time.) Her ex-H made it very clear he wouldn't carry on busting his guts earning full time in a demanding job and bank roll a mortgage for a house that only she would carry on living in.
^
Luckily they got some good advice and made sensible and more equitable arrangements before it got as far as the courtroom, which is where it's really the lawyers who benefit^

Even many solicitors don't benefit from things ending up in court, they make far more money on volume of clients than they do in serving one right up to court. That's especially true where they are providing legal aid.

The aim of solicitors is to try and get things settled with the minimum amount of complex work so that they can get a cheap a chips paralegal to do the leg work whilst working on a fixed fee.

Incidentally, my understanding is that Mesher Orders are common, just not if it goes to court. It's still the stock answer for a bog standard solicitor (who are nowhere near as qualified or financially savvy as the public tend to assume they are). Bear in mind the average family solicitor these days won't always know the real estate situation in the town of the divorcing couple and is increasingly likely to not earn enough to be a homeowner themselves in the south so their knowledge of mortgages can be quite poor. So they recommend Mesher Orders because they don't know what else to do, and Joe Public goes along with it.

I said no, I knew the courts would almost certainly say no and I also knew it wasn't even in my ex-wife's long term interests to have one. She was far better off downsizing to a place she could afford on her own and to have a bigger share of the pension instead.

millymollymoomoo · 07/12/2022 17:55

there is no automatic right to stay in the house
it Will completely depend on your relative earnings ( and earning potential) as well
as other assets available to split

if your ex is not a high earner it’s even less likely. A long term order is also unlikely
as is one where you cannot afford to pay the mortgage and bills solely

your ex will also have housing needs suitable to house the children and this needs to be considered

best thing is see a solicitor

btw a mesher is not necessarily the best outcome if all it does is kick the can down the road

gogohmm · 07/12/2022 18:01

There's no right to stay in the family home.

Mesher orders do sometimes still get awarded but tend to be in very specific situations etc where children are in their last years of education and suitable housing isn't possible near their school (year 10 and over), where there's significant adaptations to the family home due to disabilities etc. Also very high incomes

Spousal maintenance tends to only be awarded in specific circumstances too eg (in my case) where a spouse has given up their career to follow their spouse overseas, where dc have significant disabilities and of course very high incomes (over £100k). A combination of these is likely to result in an award but often time limited (mine is until dc is independent, unknown time frame as sn)

Most couples come to arrangement themselves

nicnac8801 · 07/12/2022 18:06

millymollymoomoo · 07/12/2022 17:55

there is no automatic right to stay in the house
it Will completely depend on your relative earnings ( and earning potential) as well
as other assets available to split

if your ex is not a high earner it’s even less likely. A long term order is also unlikely
as is one where you cannot afford to pay the mortgage and bills solely

your ex will also have housing needs suitable to house the children and this needs to be considered

best thing is see a solicitor

btw a mesher is not necessarily the best outcome if all it does is kick the can down the road

Thank you all for your replies.

Basically I'm screwed, I will only have about 50k from the sale and I earn just below 25k

I'm so sad that the lovely home we have will have to be sold.

I don't think I'm going to be able to get a mortgage on my income.

OP posts:
DenholmElliot11 · 07/12/2022 18:09

I don't think I'm going to be able to get a mortgage on my income.

Go and find out. The first thing to do is work out how much, if anything, a bank is willing to lend you. When you know the answer to this, you can make an informed decision moving forward.

ChampagneCommunist · 07/12/2022 18:13

@nicnac8801 Do you work full time? If not, start looking for a full time job so you will be able to get a mortgage.

If/when you are both working full time then negotiate 50/50 on childcare responsibilities and expenses

nicnac8801 · 07/12/2022 18:16

ChampagneCommunist · 07/12/2022 18:13

@nicnac8801 Do you work full time? If not, start looking for a full time job so you will be able to get a mortgage.

If/when you are both working full time then negotiate 50/50 on childcare responsibilities and expenses

Yes I work full time. I am trying my best to work my way up and earn better.

I will contact a solicitor and get some advice.

OP posts:
magicalorange · 07/12/2022 18:17

What is DH's annual salary? From that you can work out what level of child maintenance you might expect, depending on what the split in care will be.

nicnac8801 · 07/12/2022 18:21

magicalorange · 07/12/2022 18:17

What is DH's annual salary? From that you can work out what level of child maintenance you might expect, depending on what the split in care will be.

Just over 60k

OP posts:
magicalorange · 07/12/2022 18:22

Hmm, yeah that's not high enough for anything like spousal or a mesher to be considered.

What kind of childcare split do you think he will request?

nicnac8801 · 07/12/2022 18:24

magicalorange · 07/12/2022 18:22

Hmm, yeah that's not high enough for anything like spousal or a mesher to be considered.

What kind of childcare split do you think he will request?

I think he will go for 50/50

OP posts:
MrsThimbles · 07/12/2022 18:28

There’s a poster here who represented herself in court and got her Mesher Order. I think her name was something like SallyCinammon and her advice is invaluable. I’m sorry I can’t be sure if her name but I’m sure other posters will know up who I’m referring to. She really is quite something and washed the floor with her husband in court despite doing it herself.

millymollymoomoo · 07/12/2022 18:40

With a husband who is not a high earner, and an op who cannot pay the mortgage and bills on their own with any contribution from ex, I’d say a mesher is highly improbable

but the only people who can advise will be a solicitor looking at all the information and assets available

LynneBenfield · 07/12/2022 18:50

MrsThimbles · 07/12/2022 18:28

There’s a poster here who represented herself in court and got her Mesher Order. I think her name was something like SallyCinammon and her advice is invaluable. I’m sorry I can’t be sure if her name but I’m sure other posters will know up who I’m referring to. She really is quite something and washed the floor with her husband in court despite doing it herself.

Please bear in mind that not everything you read on here is 100% accurate

BetterFuture1985 · 07/12/2022 18:56

nicnac8801 · 07/12/2022 18:06

Thank you all for your replies.

Basically I'm screwed, I will only have about 50k from the sale and I earn just below 25k

I'm so sad that the lovely home we have will have to be sold.

I don't think I'm going to be able to get a mortgage on my income.

You're doing what my ex-wife did. Giving up before you even try. You're no ones dependent anymore and you need to help yourself.

  1. I never said you wouldn't get a Mesher Order at all, I just said you were unlikely to get one on the FMH until the children were 18. A two or three year Mesher to buy you time might be reasonable.

  2. My ex-wife tried to claim she couldn't get her own mortgage on her £12k salary. I found her one for £160k taking into account UC, CB and CM. If your ex is willing he might pay you extra CM for a few years through Christmas Orders to boost your mortgage capacity. It's in his interests to avoid a Mesher.

BetterFuture1985 · 07/12/2022 18:58

nicnac8801 · 07/12/2022 18:16

Yes I work full time. I am trying my best to work my way up and earn better.

I will contact a solicitor and get some advice.

There's a high likelihood a solicitor will tell you to get a Mesher Order. If your ex is smart he will say no and you'll probably lose in court. If he's a fool and listens to a mediocre solicitor himself he might say yes!

MrsThimbles · 07/12/2022 19:06

LynneBenfield · 07/12/2022 18:50

Please bear in mind that not everything you read on here is 100% accurate

I’m happy to believe the poster.

MrsThimbles · 07/12/2022 19:08

@BetterFuture1985 I think I recognize you from previous posts and I’m more than happy to put my trust in the poster I mentioned.

BetterFuture1985 · 07/12/2022 19:38

MrsThimbles · 07/12/2022 19:08

@BetterFuture1985 I think I recognize you from previous posts and I’m more than happy to put my trust in the poster I mentioned.

I don't massively care... but the poster you mentioned will have had specific circumstances and a particular judge. It would also have happened at a certain time in history, possibly when Mesher Orders were more popular.

Mesher Orders are generally a bad idea for both the resident and non-resident parent and are only really used as a last resort when the court has to act in the interests of the children. They are far more common in negotiation. Invariably the resident parent doesn't realise what a bad deal they're getting until they come to an end.

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