Where should I seek financial advice?

[threeandmeandthedog]

H and I have separated. We are trying to do this amicably as we have 3 dc who are 11,13 and 14.

We have complex assets and I don’t know what is fair or not. Over the course of our 16 yr relationship (married 13 years) I have inherited a fair amount of property and money due to death of my sibling and parents. We have kept hold of one property and rent it out. We have bought the family home outright with the money from the sale of another property. We also rent out our former family home which we bought and co tributes to jointly.

our family home is mortgage free.

We both earn a similar salary. H was a SAHD when the kids were little for about 5 years. H has neglected his pension and I have not. I have always managed the money and been very sensible, H has taken No interest even though I try to involve him.

H has had an affair and left. He is not living with OW. I am very much aware that he is entitled to a fair chunk. We have agreed on 50/50 for kids. I really want to keep this amicable and so does he. He won’t move into one of the properties we rent out. After he pays rent and bills he will have very little money left.

ideally we would like to work this out without involving lawyers. Where or from whom can we jointly seek advice? A family solicitor or an IFA? He is lazy and not inclined to pay for advice. I want to get professional advice but want to be transparent. I think it is mad not to seek legal advice with a large amount of assets.

I feel a bit overwhelmed by all of this and want to remove the emotion from it. I am joyous that I am free from H and know Me and the kids will have a better life for it. I want to do everything fairly and above board but am not sure where to start.

I’d say financial advice is peripheral here. You need legal advice of your own. So does he but that is his decision to make alone. You are split. There is no joint or we.

The issue is the inheritance. By the sounds of it you used it as part of your family contribution. Funding homes and investments. Unless you kept the purchase and income from the rentals separate from the family entirely, they are potentially marital assets. He has a solid claim on at least 50% of the assets and investments.

You need to step back from seeing him as part of a “we”. There is no “we” anymore. He will eventually get a solicitor. You can engage one of your own and the process will just take things to a natural conclusion.

I'm sorry to say you need your own legal advice. He will be entitled to 50% of all your joint assets, unless you can prove they were ringfenced as yours.
no way will he be advised or agree to rent off you when he owns 50% of it.
if you want it to be fair and amicable, then the starting point is an independent evaluation of all assets by both of you and an average taken, then you sell them, split the proceeds and move on. Or one buys the other out. But you still need a solicitor either way.

Agree with lemonTT

he should and most likely will be entitled to 50% of joint assets including your inheritance which has been used to purchase multiple joint family properties and interningled with your general joint natural assets ( unless you ringfenced all those )

when I saw solicitor re my own divorce ( had been married 15 years, earned roughly sane, a 13 and 12 yo) I was clearly told by several
solicitors it would be 50:50

why would he not get 50%?

what are you proposing?

So you have 3 houses? What is the total value.

If the sexes were swapped and he came on saying I was a SAHM for 5 years, my DH inherited money, added to his own pension while I looked after the children saving tens of thousands in childcare. Now he says I am not entitled to stay in one of our rentals free and must pay him rent. He is talking about not getting legal advice ..what should I do ?

I think people's reactions would be different. As he may be entitled to more than 50% if he can prove he has been left at a disadvantage.

If I was in his shoes I would definitely seek legal advice, he almost certainly could push for more than 50% of the assets and a piece of your pension as well.

@Angelicapickles1 i am not trying to do him out of any money. I am totally aware the legal starting point is 50/50 and this seems fair to me. My question is about where I should seek advice from about how to disentangle assets in everyone’s best interests. He wants to rent a new property which is hugely expensive- I have suggested he stays in our old family home (which is now rented out) the. He would not have to worry about paying rent.

@LemonTT @JetBlackSteed @millymollymoomoo Thank you for the helpful information. This is in line with what I thought.

just to make it clear, if it came across as muddled in my OP. I am not asking him to rent one of our rental properties from me. I am suggesting he has it as his family home and I relinquish all ties. Then we each have a comparable family home and we can split income and any future profit from sale of our third property.

I just wondered if inheritance counted as matrimonial assets. I think it does here as it has all gone in the family pot.

I will seek my own legal advice.

I have also spent 2.5 years on maternity leave and my private pension is small- I only started paying into it in 2020.

my work pension is also small as I didn’t have one before , changed careers and started paying into it in 2021.

i have not used any inheritance to pay into my pension pot- no idea where you get that from @Angelicapickles1 ? All money has been shared to benefit the family, him includes eg holidays, comfortable life style, savings etc. so am assuming this means it has become part of matrimonial assets. So this is what I need to bear in mind and seek further advice.

where I should seek advice from about how to disentangle assets in everyone’s best interests

A solicitor, this is what they do as the financial settlement part of a divorce.

If you shared the inheritance to benefit your entire family, then it would probably be seen as a matrimonial asset, again you probably need proper legal advice as per previous posters.

www.divorce.co.uk/your-finances/inheritance#:~:text=Inheritance%20FAQ&text=What%20happens%20to%20inherited%20property,the%20person%20who%20received%20it.

I believe some IFAs will offer joint financial advice. Solicitors won’t advise both of you as can’t act where there is a conflict.

“Amicable” may be a good route for you. They have a podcast. Generally works out much cheaper than each having a solicitor.

Sounds like you have enough assets to cover both of your needs which makes it easier to agree things amicably.

Thanks everyone- @Circe7 this is my hope- all needs are covered and we are happy with this.

will see a solicitor and do my research

Check out the Dura society

Best thing to do is to get all the assets valued independently. Then you can go to mediation and decide how to split them all up.

Your suggestion that he takes the rental may well be fair but clearly it isn’t what he wants. Maybe he wants the current home? How would you feel about moving into the other property?

As fair as you think you are being, you will inherently behave in a self serving way. Even if it is just avoiding the hassle of moving because you stay in the FMH. Instead of suggesting what you think he needs, ask what he wants.

At mediation you will be asked what you both want. If there are compatible, job done. If they aren’t then you start having to negotiate. Any benefit you get at his expense needs to be offset by a concession. It doesn’t even have to be financial. If you pick the house, he picks the car etc.

People with no obvious red lines or desires often do well in negotiations. They are usually bluffing that the compromise was what they wanted all along.

Definitely see an ifa.

I honestly think you need to consider what he will accept as fair - based on what you are saying, either he gets the rental property transferred into his sold name (you get the family home) or you sell the rental and he gets that money to buy. In addition a lump sum seems fair but I would consider suggesting he waives anything else and you take on all the additional costs of the children

I just wanted to wish you well in a very difficult time. 💐🍷

@gogohmm this is exactly what I had in mind. Apart from I don’t have a lump sum unless I sell family home.

He does not want to stay in the family home. He wants to rent a place for him and the kids for a year and consider his position. They will do 50/50 split.

He keeps changing his mind about what he wants and doesn’t want to seek independent advice. I don’t know what else to do apart from seek my own advice, make what I think is a fair offer and discuss further through mediation or something. At least that’s a starting point for him. And I am doing all the leg work as usual. I want a clean break that’s for sure!

I am happy to pay full cost of children's needs.

I don’t want to move and would like to stay here in the family home until youngest is 18 and then would be happy to sell and split the profit.

have arranged 3x valuations of each property- we have nothing else of value. Our car is an old banger. He has taken most of the savings (with my agreement) to set up a new flat/ home for kids.

Just seek your own legal advise

your solicitor will give you a range of fair out ones and also help negotiate trade offs for you to think about

once you have that, put an offer to him…. And wait for feedback

hopefully he will see that the best way forward is discussion and not for this to become too adversarial- you have children whose best interest are served by parents being able to be amicable and conparent going forward

good luck

Op, please start by using MNs link above to Advise Now Guides.
theyre written by family legal experts, cost £20 to download and are brilliant. Given solicitors cost £200+ per hour it’s a bargain ( if nglish/welsh law- assume there’s equivalent for scotland somewhere),

the default divorce settlement is not a 50:50 starting point, though sounds from your but it will end up that way as you do have surplus assets. The actual starting point are the 10 or so criteria the courts use to determine “ fair settlement” based on marriage act . This applies to their duty of care when sealing a consent order, or a full court financial agreement where parties can’t agree.

Unfortunately you are going to have to face the reality that you will not leave with what you have contributed and that includes inheritance, pensions, houses etc. I know from personal experience that this was difficult to accept especially as I was divorcing for “ unreasonable behaviour “ on his part. The other thing I found hard to accept was that he would have no financial repercussions for his past behaviour even though that already meant I was worse off than I might have been if it wasn’t for his behaviour. It takes time and courage to face this, and accept it and be able to move forwards in getting a consent order with minimal acrimony and not t make a bad situation worse with high solicitor costs.

the main way I accepted what I would loose was these Advice Now guides. The diy financial settlement one, allowed me to realise how the fair settlement worked, Do a Form E and D81 to list the matrimonial assets we had and figure out what I’d actually get. I went through a period of “grief” for want of better word to accept the outcome and then went into discussions with my ex to agree “amicably”: how we’d split. Once I asked for divorce, i shared the advice now guides with him too, so he could realise what we’d each get too.

arm yourself with info to determine your likely outcome. Get used to that and accept it. Then decide least painful ay to acheive that. For instance I decided to do everything to avoid pension sharing arrangement - it would have cost us massively. So I was prepared to sacrifice other funds that were my “fair share” to get to same place. I decided that up front before we went into conversation- what I would compromise on and what I wouldn’t to get to that same place in total.

Thanks @Newlifestartingatlast - love your username too.

Your post really resonated- it is hard to accept that to do this fairly I must let go of some things which will be hard to let go of, and with that the financial security that this provides. Especially as I am quite angry. It is galling that STBXH’s awful behaviour over the years counts for zero. However, I shall be rid of him, and if this comes at a price, then I am happy to pay it.

I will look at the guides. I have taken the initial free consultation from two solicitors and looked at everything recommended on these threads and am confident I can do this with minimal costs (for now- I suppose this may change).

I have produced a totally transparent spreadsheet of absolutely everything financial and shared it with STBXH. I have negotiated back and forth with him and we are roughly in agreement about how things will work, we just need to iron it out and sort out what that might look like.

for anyone reading this in the future and looking for advice the solicitors both told me:

Spousal Maintenance: We both earn similar amounts and have similar out goings so this was not something we need to consider

Pensions: As above. Plus both solicitors were very clear that STBXH made his choice not to contribute to a pension and this was not my responsibility. He was in work and he had the means to do this. Had I had a massive pension pot it would be considered fair to split it in some way. But I don’t, so not relevant.

Money and assets: As we are both provided for by our own contributions this is what we need to negotiate. Solicitors said that a court would look at who had contributed in this way to the marriage, how and why. As the assets I have inherited have gone into the family pot then they should be shared between STBXH and I. However not necessarily from a 50/50 starting point. I am working with him to come to an agreement which we both feel is fair and provides financial security for the kids and both of us. It’s not easy going and I do feel resentful because I am so angry about his behaviour. However if I take the emotion out of it, it is fair. I know my feelings will subside in the future.

so there you go- not fun, highly stressful, but worth it for a new life.

Don’t want to disagree with you op, but the courts look FIRST at fair settlement criteria, not who contributed what

only if you have asurplus of assets to meet the criteria in fair settlement, MAY the courts consider who contributed. Just saying

if you and STBex can amicably agree that’s half the battle. But a court can question or even refuse to seal a consent order if they think that one party is going to be in a detrimental situation and the criteria for fair settlement have not been met - there are post on this board to that effect.

do remember, and I don’t want to paint solicitors as bad, but a solicitor has a vested interest in telling you something of what you want to hear. A solicitor will also do anything really their client want (hence why people receive some really batshit solicitor letters of complaints/threats form neighbours!) . It will encourage you to hire them, and they will pocket £3.25+ for every minute you are talking to them irrespective of the outcome you actually get. Yes, you do need solicitors for some parts - but don’t ignore this fact . They are running a business and they need clients. The argument about pensions (that it’s your ex fault he didn’t get a pension) for instance is not part of fair settlement criteria. Past behaviour does not come into it. Your pensions are joint assets. Sure, if there is surplus assets to meet your needs under fair settlement, and you and ex have agreed not to split pensions, the courts will probably accept this as long as pot is not massive and you are both still youngish. But if that’s not the case the court could decide it is not fair settlement and refuse to seal the order. This is why you need to see the total sums of assets and figure out what assets you split and keep unsplit to reach the fair settlement and what you agree on . This is what me and ex did- we both got roughly same but he got more cash in lieu of a pension sharing agreement for my pensions. I had to buy him out in effect. If your ex agrees you have right to bigger slice of pot becuase he choose not to get a pension, then make sure you get solicitor to write a short explanation of that in D81 before you sign it and that he can show he has taken legal advice - otherwise courts will highlight this and may question it.

if you haven’t already, get your spreadsheet you’ve prepared already, into the format of FORM E . And then summarise it on form D81 . Government divorce website has the forms to download and simple explanations of how to use . Form E is the detail and would be needed if you can’t reach an amicable decison yourselves and go to mediation. But even if you’re agreeing, the Form E is better to work off at a detailed level. The form D81 goes to the courts with your draft legal consent order to be sealed. Form D81 is your legal declaration of ALL assets. Both your signatures are required and failure to declare everything on here is a criminal offence. So you will need to value your pensions etc for this. Something you might want to do sooner rather than later as can take some time for pension valuation statements to come back. Prepare the forms yourself from your spreadsheet- this will save solicitor cost too as they will charge you loads for putting your spreadsheet into this official format and take them a few weeks too 🙄

“Don’t want to disagree with you op, but the courts look FIRST at fair settlement criteria, not who contributed what

only if you have asurplus of assets to meet the criteria in fair settlement, MAY the courts consider who contributed. Just saying”

Yep, totally get this. We have a surplus, so this is what we are negotiating on.

Thanks @Newlifestartingatlast very helpful. I have valued my pension. Only been paying into it for a year so it is tiny. He has a work one that he has been paying in for a few years too. So nothing worth splitting.