DD13 does not want to see ex as often

[Bestofthree]

Hi,

I am posting after many years. My daughter - and often son too - have always struggled to adapt to visit their dad, who moved an hour away several years ago. They do not like going for the weekend. They are 11 and 13.

I felt pressured into sending them. They would be crying and upset. This is every other weekend.

Now, again, my DD wants to go every 3 weeks. Ex is so angry and has told her she is being selfish, and stoping her brother coming, meaning I cant have a break and affected him. He is telling me that she is manipulative and she needs to suck it up and deal with life and that this is just the way things are.

I feel so tired and worn down. I continue to be worried about emotional damage he is doing to her by saying these things.

There has never been a formal agreement. He used to come weekly now and again midweek but tailed off as he works far away etc.

Hope there is not too much more background I need to share. He pays maintenance. I struggle as I do get stressed.

I had some childhood trauma so may be more susecptible to being softer and wanting to protect DD from what I see as words that will damage her self worth further. I struggle to hear them say they dont want to go and then ignore them and send them anyway.

Some nightmares and stories of missing home, not being able to sleep, worrying about the dark espesially when younger (a year or two ago) but come back happy enough.

I dont know what to do!

If he hasn't made them feel welcomed and comfortable enough to want to go, that's his problem. It is up to you to facilitate, not force.
However a lot of it is just the stage of childhood. At that age, they want to do their own thing, or just chill in their rooms after a week at school. Some want to hang out with friends.

Is she being manipulative, or is she just tired of being pushed from pillar to post when she didn't choose this situation - her parents did?

I'm a former EOW DC and I can tell you right now - it's not a lot of fun. I didn't hate seeing my dad - far from it - but I hated that I had no choice, that whatever else was going on in my life I had to pack up and go there every second weekend. And around 13-14 is when kids really start to be aware of this and feel the injustice of having no choice over their lives.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I understand.
I do not know what to do.
I have suggested every 3 weeks for a weekend.
Or every week for a day. More driving but I would prefer this.
No compromising from his side though. He is very traditional and authoratative with parenting. He says she needs to just grow up and its part of becoming an adult.
EOW is tiring as you dont have time to 'wind down' at home.
Its very stressful!

Do not force a 13 year old. I was around this age when I decided against seeing one of my parents anymore and we have no relationship now. The other parent respected my decision. 13 is too old to force them to go, don't risk your relationship with her.

Still facilitate your son going if he wants to.

Do you currently have a court order or is it just an agreement between you?
Court order you need to go back and get in changed to change the pattern.
Agreement - I wrote to my ex told him what my DD wanted and that I was going to listen to her wishes as a court would at 13 so it was going to be this pattern. In our case it was only meeting in a coffee shop for a couple of hours. He had a strip said he was being dictated to as to how he saw his daughter and then made zero effort to see her for 18 months.
She is 18 now and will meet him for coffee or lunch every so often. He destroyed their relationship by not listening.

13 is old enough to have her say as to how often she goes. I’d say 11 is nearly old enough too. They just want to be home and if your ex is being unwelcoming at his house and they don’t feel comfortable, then he needs to sort it.

No court order. Just an informal agreement..

Thanks for sharing views and experiences.

It's not that they have a bad time there even. He makes an effort. I guess it just doesnt feel like home?

(I dont think it helps they were forced to go for many years. And he had a new baby within a year -ish of leaving me and living with his new DP within a few months).

I will see what to do but it really worries me how he is talking to her. She is already wobbly (like lots of teens) and self concious. And as I have poor MH now and again I can be emotionally unstable*. So having a dad who is telling her she is causing problems is not going to help with self love and feeling like she is a problem.

I am not sure DS(11) would go alone. He is nervous about it. I think he would be fine but isnt sure yet.

Shame really as she would be fine with day trips or seeing him everyday if it was in the same city. He chose to move away to be near the new DP rather than stay in the same city as his kids. Now he is giving us stress about it!

• I have sought help from local parenting service and got therapy etc . Just thought I would mention to paint a fuller and honest picture.

It's clearly a difficult situation for OP and as mum you're stuck in the middle. I do feel for you - but I also feel for your kids. What I didn't say above is that at 14 I refused to go to my dad's any more for formal EOW access. Thereafter, we had a much looser arrangement - I'd go there for dinner or we'd meet for a walk or something. I've only spent a handful of nights in that house since.

Bluntly, your ex needs to be less rigid and authoritative if he wants to have a decent relationship with his DD going forward. He was the one to move and make life difficult for everyone, so he needs to take responsibility for that. If he was up the road, it would be SO much easier at this stage of life, where his kids are getting older and don't want such a formal arrangement any more. You can dictate to a 7-year-old where they go and when, but teens have opinions and they push back and if you want to have a good relationship with them in future it's a good idea to listen to them and meet them in the middle.

Thanks for listening @maranella . I understand what you are saying completely. She would totally be up for a looser arrangement. He seems to be simultaneously saying "you have to come cos youre a child" and "you need to grow up and deal with difficult situations like youre an adult".

Lets see what happens.

Part of being an adult is being able to choose for yourself what you do with your time and where you go, it doesn’t mean you’re forced to do more things or go places you don’t like going. So if he wants her to be more adult, that’s giving her more choice over her time not less. This is what I’d be saying to him. If he wants her to grow up that means she gets more autonomy, so if she says she doesn’t want to go that’s up to her. If he wants to try and force her that’s a sure fire way to make her want to go even less.

You need to allow your children to say no, and to not do something they don’t want to do. Autonomy, that’s growing up.

He has just texted saying that he cannot accept every 3 weeks visits. And he is slightly putting the CM money down (no reason given). I am so worried for the pressure and stress he is going to put on kids over this to get them to go fortnightly. He is a big selfish bully. He really is.

Do I have to wait for him to apply to the courts now? I don't have much money for legal advice - living month to month - just about & have a quite a few other issues to deal with right now too.

My 11yo is unsure about going on his own. He may well get used to it. But x causing stress for everyone isnt helping.

Use CMS for the maintenance to make sure you are getting the right amount and let him take you to court about the arrangement you have proposed.
The wishes of your children will be listened to as part of the process as they are old enough to have a say in where they spend their time.
You will be able to self represent. He will have to pay the court fees.
You can do this.

This.

Your ex needs to behave like an adult and 'suck it up' (horrible phrase). That his children aren't fussed about seeing him, is his own fault.

Allow your children a free choice.

This makes me so angry - he chose to move away from his existing children for a new partner yet is sulking because as they get older they don't want their lives disrupted EOW.

My ex didn't get everything right but he did make sure he stayed in the same town as us, on his own, so that his relationship with our 2 DC was affected as little as possible. They go there EOW and 1/2 nights in the week and can continue their normal lives while doing so. They still prefer being here with me, but their lives are not disrupted by going to their dad's.

I think at 13, your DC should have some say on where they spend their time but as long as there is no abuse or bad treatment, I would still be helping to facilitate the relationship between them and their dad, for the DC's sake more than his. Sounds like he is unwilling to compromise though and he needs accept his part in why they don't want to go as much.

Your ex husband is showing zero emotional maturity/awareness and ultimately is risking losing his daughter altogether.

Have you spoken to the children about why they are reluctant to see their dad?

After hearing them out you might want to, in the politest way possible, raise the issues with your ex and allow him to respond.

Is it possible he's putting the CM down to scare you into forcing them to go?