Mediation query

[LDA123]

Has anyone had any success with mediation?

Husband and I are separated, he is renting and I am in the family home with our 4 young children.

He firstly wanted to sell straight away but now says we can wait until the fixed period is up in 3 years. At which time, he “says” that we have to downsize to a smaller property and his name will continue to be on the mortgage as it is highly unlikely that I will earn enough to afford a mortgage for the family home in my sole name.

He was the main breadwinner and earns good money with bonuses and I worked part-time and looked after the children 99% of the time.

I have increased my hours and am entitled to a bit of UC and child benefit. I am currently paying 100% of the mortgage, all household bills and 100% of kid costs.

The main issue (if you disregard the fact that buying a new smaller house will cost the same as what we paid for this house. He wants to do this to free up equity and repay his debts) is that he doesn’t want to/see the need to tell me when the new smaller house would have to be sold? He seems to think that I don’t need to know this. But surely I do? What happens if we sell the family home, move to a smaller home and then he demands we sell that one too eventually? Obviously I know that we need a clean break at some stage. But I’m worried that it is too many unknowns plus the upheaval of moving twice and the costs associated with that.

I have suggested we go to mediation to try to find a solution but he is adamant mediation won’t work because I’m being too stubborn wanting to know when we’d have to sell the house.

Has anyone been through something similar and had success with a mediator?

I also asked him to consider what percentage he would consider giving me and the kids in 3 years to make a clean break but he doesn’t seem to think this is an option. I don’t know if it is or isn’t because it would all depend on what equity I can use in a new family home.

Can anyone help?

I am already supporting myself and the children with my work, benefits and his statutory CM. Is that enough or do I have to fully maximise my earnings by working full time (even if worse off) so that I can get a bigger mortgage? My youngest is 5.

I accept that I will have to work full time but was hoping in a few years when not so much childcare is needed. I don’t have any family in the area and 4 kids is a big ask to anyone.

Don't ask him anything, he doesn't get to decide the finer points of the divorce. Grey rock all the way.

You will be expected to work full time over time to reach financial independence possibly not straight away but any settlement will consider not only your current earnings but also your earning potential based on full time employment

courts will always try to seek a clean break but housing of children will take priority if that cannot be achieved immediately

one party will not be awarded all the assets and the other all the debt

you need independent legal advise

contrary to what’s often stated on here you are not entitled to at least 50% you are entitled to a fair share. That could be more or less than 50% and without knowing your situation no one here can state what that will be. With 4 dependent children, their needs will take priority in reaching settlement

it’s reasonable he wants to take his name off the mortgage sooner rather than later as that impacts his own housing ability - whether or not that is achievable now we dont know

Talk to a mortgage broker, some lenders take into account all income including benefits and child maintenance, you might be surprised at what you could borrow, definitely get them to do a version based on you working full time, you are likely to still get a UC top up with four kids, I don't know about the childcare element but I would imagine you would be entitled to help with childcare costs too. Ideally you can buy him out or be able to afford to get somewhere on your own

@LDA123 To answer your question, I wasn't expected to do that but then my son was 3 years old and had been diagnosed with autism. The ages of the children are taken into account and the fact you may be able to increase your working hours when they are all at school. That is not always possible.

It sounds to me that you are doing all you can in your circumstances.

I wanted mediation but finally came to conclusion mediation will only work if both parties want to try to split up and want fairness for both parties. If one person does not want it, it is a waste of time. You need a solicitor. Mine cost almost £2k but saved me many thousands and got me half of my exh pension which was far bigger than mine as I had time out having the children. A court awards based on children needs first. Then needs of parents. If you have 4 children you may well get awarded 65 percent of equity. That is what judge gave me. I had 2 children and one was 16 other was 9.

The best thing for you is to become financially independent as soon as possible. You need to decide what that looks like to you and what you need from the divorce to facilitate that independence. A solicitor will help but you can do a lot yourself. Wikidivorce is a good source of help.

Think about your life in 5, 10 or 20 years time. Will 5 of you fit into a smaller property when they are teens? Will you be able to sell up when the youngest hits 18? Realistically at least one of them will still be living at home. At that point your income will drop because there will be no CMS and you will be expected to sell and give him a significant share of your home if he pays the mortgage. As you get older you will need a pension and a retirement home.

It’s worth knowing that Spousal support will impact on UC. Child support doesn’t but spousal does. Which is why a lot of average or low earning people don’t go after spousal.

Whether you work or not is up to you. The benefit of working even if you are no better off financially is that your CV will be better and you could earn more. You can be contributing to a pension.

Sadly prolonged career breaks can trap a woman into low income jobs that no divorce settlement will compensate for. UC when children are 18+ won’t be much.

I realise this sounds harsh but you need to get your head around this and take control of you life and financial future.

The thing is, I am working now. I am self employed working on a contract basis. I don’t feel I am financially dependent on him because I already pay 100% of the mortgage and all the kids costs. He pays statutory CM. Because my work is flexible, I can work around the children, evenings, weekends when I haven’t got them, school hours etc. I know that this might not be feasible forever but whilst they’re still young (ages 5-11) I was hoping this could work for the next few years. I have no childcare costs.

Ive worked out that if I go back to work full time now, I will actually earn less money. I won’t get child benefit plus travel costs and childcare for 4 children. I don’t have any family in the area. Also, I worry that it will be detrimental to them to have to go to after-school care every single day. Obviously I would do it if I have to, but it is a hard hit to take when I’m currently managing financially without asking for spousal maintenance etc.

The main downside is that without my gross income being higher by working full time, my mortgage opportunities are less. Although like others have said, I might be able to include CB and CM with some brokers and UC.

I fully expect to sell and downsize and pay back his equity. In fairness, I don’t really want anything to do with him so don’t want to depend on him for a second longer than I have to.

I’m not sure my mortgage opportunities would be far greater working full time because I have 4 dependent children and have to declare the childcare costs associated with that which will surely impact my borrowing capacity.

Ideally I suppose, I’d like to keep family home for maybe 5 years until youngest at secondary school and then sell up and have a complete clean break. I can then work full time without childcare costs. We could get a smaller house perhaps. Equity would hopefully have increased in this place.

Whether that is realistic, I don’t know. It would seriously hamper his ability to buy a new home. Although that said, he does earn very good money (3-4 times what I make).

Agggggh!

Equity might have increased but so too will the £ you have to pay ex back by, so too will house prices on those you wish to buy

and while you feel independent you are not if ex is still in your mortgage which also limits his housing options

is he high earner ?

Also what will child access arrangements look like?

Yes he is a high earner. Currently looks after them EOW.

Thanks for the wikidivorce recommendation - is never heard of them - but have arranged to have a consultation.

I really need to know where I stand.

Yes this is true. He is on the mortgage so do have to accept not independent even if paying the mortgage etc.

How high is high? There’s a difference between 100k pa and 500k pa
yiu don’t need to say here obvs but the advice you get would be different
which is why you need legal advice which is specific to your circumstances

Not high high but over £100,000 - £150,000

What input is he going to have with the children. How much time will they spend with him? This could allow you to work longer hours and to build your income.

In 5 years time you will have a bunch of teens. Can you downsize then ? They will be a lot more vocal about what they expect to happen. Can you stay in the same area because switching school at secondary age is potentially more difficult. Exams are always pending.

IMO, moving and giving him a lump sum in 5 years is just going to be more difficult.

You haven't mentioned his pension OP - this is potentially a big asset of the marriage.

You could offset your entitlement to a share of his pension for a greater share of equity. I did this and got 100% of the equity. It does mean you have to always keep one eye on your pension provision but it could solve the immediate problem.

His pension is x10 mine I believe.

OP, you could consider a Mesher Order which means you can stay in the family home until the youngest is 18 or out of full time education. They are not popular these days because courts prefer a clean break but
this may work for you for now. It's worth asking for specific advice about this in relation to your circumstances.

I also meant to mention pensions. That is a valuable asset to which you are entitled a share. It's an excellent negotiating tool in my experience 🤷🏻‍♀️

Mergers can just kick the can down the road for reasons lemon already mentioned

pensions do need to be considered both in terms of possible pension sharing but also potentially to offset some in exchange for higher equity share

Thank you everyone, some great advice. I’ve sent all our financial details to Wikivorce so will be interesting to see what they come up with. At least perhaps a starting point for mediation if we go down that route.

Whatever you do insist on pension sharing. Do not let him keep it all to himself or fob you off with a few thousand. I pension shared with my ex as I had a year off three times with children and ended up being awarded 1/3 of his pension to even it up. He was fuming about it and threatened me too but I stuck to my guns.

Yes I agree (I think you meant Meshers) @millymollymoomoo and they're not popular these days, but it is an available option.

You will need to sort out mediation regardless. It's a requirement by the court. I'd do your research now and seek recommendations.