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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Custody agreement

21 replies

Monkerina · 14/09/2022 21:33

Stbxh and I are currently going through mediation and I'd really appreciate some thoughts on our parenting plan as I feel like I can't see the wood for the trees. Bit of background:

-Divorce is my choice, not his. He is currently sticking to The Script wrt alternately pleading with me to work things out, promising to change, telling me how selfish and horrible I am, telling me that I have prevented him from being a better husband and father, he wants 50/50, 'you're lucky I haven't turned abusive' etc.
-The reason for separation is lack of support, care, generally wearing me down until the love and respect was gone. I can't wait to have to parent 2 children, not 3.
-2 DC, aged 6 and 3. DS1 is awaiting an ASD diagnosis, requires firm schedules, not at all open to flexibility or unpredictability. Stbxh has always struggled with him and vice versa, they spend a lot of time shouting at each other. DS2 is more NT and reasonably laid back, as much as any 3yo!
-Stbxh has always taken a firm step back on parenting. He has put DS2 to bed 5 times, ever, all since I asked for a divorce. DS1 bedtimes are a 2hr production thanks to ASD and involve me lying with him til he sleeps, usually around 9:30-10pm; stbxh has very rarely been involved because they wind each other up which leads to meltdowns which leads to me being called in and stbxh refusing to try in future.
-We're all still in the family home- I need to apply for DS2's school place so he needs to be in situ; I'm obv not leaving him; stbxh won't leave as 'this is my house', 'all this is your idea' etc. Home is tough and I avoid it as much as possible.
-I work part time around school and school nursery, decent salary, scope to increase hours when and as I like (very grateful for employer's flexibility!). Stbxh has worked flexibly for some time to enable him to look after the children eg during school hols while I work, plus we use annual leave. He has usually declined to look after both children for more than 1 day at a time as he can't cope. No local family support.
-Plenty of equity in family home, stbxh wants to buy me out using cash gifts from his parents in lieu of inheritance. I'd like a new start, will stay very local.

So our parenting plan:
-Children will come to my house at 6pm every night except Friday
-He will collect from school and give dinner on Tuesdays and Fridays
-He will keep them Friday night until Saturday evening
-I will do all school drop offs
-agreement will continue in hols, ie he has them all day Tues, Fri and Sat
-He will see the children for 8 additional days and nights through the hols, not consecutive iyswim
-Standard alternative Xmas, shared birthdays etc

I'm reasonably happy with the above, if slightly philosophical about the fact that it gives me most of the hard bits- ASD bedtimes, every morning school run, no weeknights to myself to do hobbies etc- the children and their needs come first.

But the issue is that stbxh had wanted to keep them over the Saturday night too, so Fri night-Sun morning. I declined as that would give the children and I only school nights and mornings, no 'fun' time, and 48 hours away is too much right now for children who have never been away from me before; I am very much their primary caregiver. He has asked instead to collect them from school on Weds too, returning at 6pm, term time only.

On one hand I'm inclined to agree, I feel sorry for him not seeing them as often and I know this hurts him, useless as he has been for the last 6 years. But on the other hand, that means he'll have even more of the quality time- 3 afternoons plus one full day a week of time when they're fun and engaging and playful; vs my 2 afternoons and 1 day, plus 6 nights of challenging stressful bedtimes. He's never cooked for them/us beyond chucking a frozen pizza in, so I also feel bad that 4/7 main meals a week will not be nutritious (and then I'll feel the brunt of hunger etc overnight).

Gosh, apologies for the length of all that! I would really appreciate any thoughts, wise mumsnetters 💐

OP posts:
millymollymoomoo · 14/09/2022 21:40

Why not eow pick up after school /nursery friday to Monday morning then Wednesday overnight ?

Hopeandlove · 14/09/2022 21:42

Sorry but long term he need to do 50/50 and share all holiday - a week on and off.
mMy ex wanted all the holidays. You are not his childcare. You need respite and a break.

Monkerina · 14/09/2022 21:43

DS1 would struggle with the (to him) unpredictability- he needs to know that eg Monday is mummy day, Tuesday is Daddy day etc. Alternate wouldn't work for him 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
rwalker · 14/09/2022 21:48

Could you alternate the sat night

millymollymoomoo · 14/09/2022 21:48

Eow Friday to Monday abc a Wednesday is very predictable

constantly coming and going every other day or so, with dad picking up a lot but then dropping back at yours is upsetting and cinfusing

thry will want daddy to stay not leave when he drops off

personally I think what you’re proposing is not settling at all

JanglyBeads · 14/09/2022 21:56

We did every Thur and Fri night at his, so each week was the same and each weekend was split. Does that help at all?

Yeah you'll v quickly get to the stage when you do not want to be having to deal with him virtually every evening.

I wonder if there's groups on Fb or elsewhere for mums of autistic chdn in your position, OP?

Monkerina · 14/09/2022 22:04

@JanglyBeads thanks, that does help. I totally get the waaaay too much seeing him stuff, all the handovers etc. Very little danger of them not wanting him to go.

In the not too distant (2-3 years?) future I can see longer periods spent with him, maybe entire weekends. But he just cannot manage DS1 and his needs (and isn't interested in learning, his view is that DS1 needs to toe the line) so I can't put DS1 in that situation for extended periods without the respite of being with me. He has also never taken the children to school (the one time he tried DS1 had a meltdown which lasted over an hour, they were late, stbxh said never again) and isn't interested in doing that, or having them on weeknights.

OP posts:
Monkerina · 14/09/2022 22:07

There's a Facebook group for DS1's particular area of ASD, I will ask for advice and experience there- thanks @JanglyBeads

They're used to stbxh picking them up from school 2 nights a week, plonking them in front of the TV then they immediately hang out exclusively with me once I finish work. The parenting agreement will ironically result in him spending much more time with them than he currently does, even without Weds afternoons 🙃

OP posts:
Spandang · 14/09/2022 22:09

Having done this myself I think you also need to consider what midweek actually means to kids too. If you get your six year old at 6pm, does that give you and them enough time for homework/reading/bath/bed?

Or is the reality more like by day two or three, the kids will be done-in, off their heads on crappy food and subsequently badly behaved/in a foul mood, and those nights you’ll spend with them end up as being either a hard slog or filled with bad behaviour.

I don’t think, if he’s irresponsible, three days on the trot is a good idea.

I also can’t help but think he’s just cherry picking what he wants, you’re kind of facilitating that really (I get, at the needs of the kids) but he’s never going to feed/clothe/wash/educate a child if he’s just waltzing about picking them up from school and then dropping them back to what feels like ‘the nanny’ for actual parenting.

It’s enabling him and if I’m honest I think you’ll end up making a rod for your own back in the long run.

Do you have to do the parenting plan right now? Or could you suggest a phased schedule that enables the kids and you to get used to it? I’ve had to do this with court before and the court agreed, because they do recognise you can’t just go from four hours contact to four nights. It might give you the opportunity to try it and see how…responsible he’s actually going to be.

RandomMess · 14/09/2022 22:12

Honestly I think your STBXH should have them one weekday overnight every week because you will need the break. Perhaps Tuesday nights and your DH will have to adjust his life to make it work.

Yes you need a fun day with the DC to have quality time.

Monkerina · 14/09/2022 22:25

I think because I've always done every bedtime (7pm-10pm on the go, 7 nights a week, for 6 years) the proposed agreement does feel fine?! Although I'm also feeling slightly like a boiled frog iyswim, I've been slowly inured to doing all the actual parenting and it's just the removal of such a large proportion of the good bits, that compensate for the tough bits, which has made me baulk.

@Spandang 6pm should be tight but workable wrt Getting Shit Done of an evening, take your point re kids off heads and it being a slog- I'm resigned to it, see above boiled frog! I also take your point about me enabling him. I'm just struggling to see how I can juggle protecting their (chiefly DS1's) needs which stbxh just cannot fulfil, with ensuring they have quality time together, with ensuring that I have quality time together with the children and am not being taken for a ride. I don't mind doing the lion's share of the tough bits, I always have, but I am loath to give away all the fun, relaxed, entertaining bits.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 14/09/2022 22:41

I think you need to shift your thinking tbh.

The DC and your ex need to develop a bed time routine that works and I thinking do that twice a week will be easier on the DC than once per week tbh

Monkerina · 14/09/2022 22:59

RandomMess · 14/09/2022 22:41

I think you need to shift your thinking tbh.

The DC and your ex need to develop a bed time routine that works and I thinking do that twice a week will be easier on the DC than once per week tbh

I don't disagree. But his current position is that he's said he won't do a school night, so will only offer Saturday 🤷‍♀️

I could offer Thurs pickup-Sat evening? Then I wouldn't be losing the Saturday night quality time, plus he might go for Friday morning drop off as lowest pressure? Then maintain the Tues pickup and dinner

OP posts:
RandomMess · 14/09/2022 23:39

Yep offer him that.

He can't cherry pick. He's saying he wants 50:50 and then refusing to do a school night 🤷🏽‍♀️

You could counter offer alternate weeks proper 50:50 - he'll run for the hills it's a completely empty threat.

ItsDinah · 15/09/2022 02:38

If it's to be 50/50,he needs to have them 182 overnights a year. I think you're on the right track with giving him every Thursday,Friday and Saturday night. You take Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday and alternate Sunday nights. This would give the children a set schedule and avoid the disruption on midweek evening handovers. He never will get better with the children if he doesn't give it a decent try. Give choice of two bits of paper to sign. One says "I can look after my children",the other says "I cannot look after my children". If he signs the first,call his bluff. For 3 weeks leave all childcare and domestic chores you usually do entirely to him. Do not helicopter,comment or criticise. Do not jump in. Join a gym and spend all your time outwith work at it from early morning to late at night.

Monkerina · 15/09/2022 03:47

I don't want 50/50, he doesn't want 50/50 (only ever says he does in an argument), his behaviour/inability to modify behaviour around DS1 is actively impacting DS1's behaviour and MH (which has a knock on effect to DS2 who can get caught in the crossfire) so 50/50 is not a goer.

Thinking about it more (unable to sleep) his issue is that he will not see the children on Monday, Wednesday or Thursday. Offering Thurs pickup on just transfers the issue- I'll still have 5/7 tough jobs to do, still only get 3/7 quality afternoon times. So I will offer Tues pickup, keep overnight, Weds school drop off- so he achieves his stated objective of seeing them on a Weds but it's a little more fair in terms of drudge work (ASD bedtime, school run) vs quality time.

I'd certainly aim for them to spend more time with him, in larger chunks, in the future, if they want to and it isn't actively impacting DS1 as it does now.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 15/09/2022 06:32

Tuesday overnight is a good compromise.

Stand firm with "the DC need quality with me as well which is early evenings and weekends"

Flowers
Sellorkeep · 15/09/2022 06:59

Have you discussed after school activities? If he’s doing that time slot is he prepared to run between those?
I think there’s a lot of pleasing your STBExH here. Is it really the best you (collectively) can come up with for the kids?

Monkerina · 15/09/2022 11:57

Thanks @RandomMess that's really helpful, a neat summary of the concept I've been struggling to verbalise 😊

@Sellorkeep we've discussed activities and agreed that parents will facilitate whichever activities the children wish to do, whether or not that happens remains to be seen! I take your point that much of this is aimed at pleasing him- I'm trying to find a happy medium where the kids get to see their father, they get quality time with me, and their needs are met and MH not impacted. And it's presented in a way that's palatable to stbxh so he doesn't kick off and refuse point blank.

OP posts:
Sellorkeep · 15/09/2022 12:13

It’s a tough challenge!! Good luck and I hope harmony will prevail.

Monkerina · 15/09/2022 12:13

So I got the kids' crayons out this morning, drew up two timetables and coloured in red the bedtimes, school runs etc, and coloured in green the quality time. Despite arguing for shades of red and green 🙄 stbxh seems gruuuudgingly in agreement now, although is still not keen to do a school night or school run. Hopefully he'll come to terms with it.

Finances will be fun 😬

OP posts:
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