Joint counselling: want him to realise there's no use in trying.

[Yoda323]

We have joint counselling this weekend to discuss whether or not it is worth trying to fix our marriage.
We've both seen her individually to share what we both want and are struggling with and now it's time to come together. She seemed to really like my husband and myself and said she felt we wanted the same things so she could see "hope."
We have also been using some techniques she asked us to use over the last 3 weeks and we have found out our individual attachment styles based on a questionnaire she sent us.
It's been eye opening for me as I now feel I have tangible explanations for why our marriage isn't working. Our differing attachment styles and his manipulative communication style which has caused us all sort of problems. I only realised it was manipulative when we tried to follow her recommended communication framework.

I have tried to end our marriage several times and Each time I try to end it, he makes it difficult or gets very emotional and pleads with me. I then back down and agree to promises of change. He changes for 3 weeks and then it's back to normal again. He would need to leave the family home initially as I have nowhere to go until the house is sold. He has accommodation he can use at his parents property. Each time I book in valuers for our home, he cancels them. It has been a horrendous time just trying to separate from him. At times, I've felt trapped.
I feel that should the counsellor tell him that there is no hope, he may actually listen to her. But if she says there is no hope because I'm bluntly telling her so, he probably won't listen.
The more on board I can get him with separating, him knowing himself that it's the only way, the easier it will be.
What can I say to the counsellor, infront of him, that isn't too obvious and blunt, which will make her agree with me and make him see for himself that it is over?
I realise this probably sounds a bit cryptic, but what I'm saying is, I want the counsellor to tell him herself that there isn't much scope for trying. He respects her a lot and I think he will listen to her.

You need to be blunt.
If I were you I’d see a solicitor now.
Next month is no fault divorce. You tell him you’re seeing a solicitor and you are applying on line for a divorce. He cannot contest it, you will be divorced.
Stop fannying around, do it if that’s what you want.

Agree with previous poster but understand that you also want to make it come from independent view.
I would quote the cycles of you having enough / him reverting and it continuing. Get it across that you cannot live in this cycle anymore - there is no indication things will change and so you do not wish to repeat the same for ever. Be strong in your determination that you will not waste your life like this. You have given him chances and he hasn't come through.
I hope you find peace. I'm still grieving the loss of our family and the guilt I feel but I know I couldn't have done anything else without losing myself and my sanity. Xx

It feels so much easier to end a marriage if our partner agrees on it as well, unfortunately often times (if not most times) they do not. The thing is, they do not have to. They do not have to agree and they do not have to approve. You are allowed to make this decision for yourself.

I get it. I've been in a similar situation. But as other posters have said, it doesn't matter who tells him there's no hope or validates the idea of there being no hope. That's all subjective and your subjective position - that there's no hope, that you want out - that's enough. You don't have to be in a relationship that you don't want to be in. It is blindingly simple really. Take the focus away from trying to convince him and work on strengthening your own resolve. Easy to say, I know. I'm trying and floundering at this but we will succeed eventually 🙃 One wild and precious life. Don't waste it xx

It isn't for the counsellor to tell him there is no hope. It is for you to tell him it is over and you no longer wish to work on the relationship. The counsellor can then help you navigate the separation process

Have you mentioned anything to him about how the questionnaires have made you realise you both have different relationship styles?

It could open up the conversation for you seeing no way for there to be progress and how you want to end the marriage. It would not only "put it out there" in the here and now as where you stand but also give you grounds to not have further joint/marriage councelling type sessions which would be a waste of both your time and money.

Ifyou feel able also point out this isn't the first time you have expressed the wish to leave the marriage. Recall how previously his promises to change have amounted to no change in the long term (three week is not a committment to changing) and he has become emotional (which is understandable, say it even if you don't think it it may help) but YOU are done. There is nothing to slavage.

It sounds like he is likely saying what the therapist wants to hear or he thinks he should say. He's an adult, if he wanted things to improve after you saying multiple times you wish to leave he would stick to the changes, not do them for a few weeks and go back to normal.

Pick a time when you can sit down and talk without outside distractions or anything you might need to leave and do midtalk. Think about what you NEED to say and how he might respond and what you could say back. In reality the conservation will go however it goes but it can help you feel more preapred and having a couple of phrases you know you need to voice is key for something like this.

Nest of luck to you with this.

I could have written this myself going through the exact same issue at the moment and empathise with the stress and frustration that it brings.

I feel like I've got so strong to get to this point after 4 years of forced conversations (by me) him promising changes and us just getting further apart. But he won't have it also wants marriage counselling and says we have too much to throw away (we've tried counselling 4 years ago and I feel he just said what they wanted to hear tbh! And I always said I wouldn't do it again).

He never listens to me and talks over me, never accepting responsibility for his actions and playing tit for tat and focussing on his problems however never initiates conversations to resolve them. I told him 6 months ago I wanted to split, he begged me and promised to change/make an effort then didn't mention it for 6 months 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

It's a constant draining battle, suppose w just have to be strong and honest, but I'm finding this hard it's like I feel he has to agree with me why can't I just be honest and stick to my guns?

Hang on in there @Yoda323 you have got this 💪💪💪

There are no magic words that will make him accept that it’s over and agree to separate amicably.

If he won’t listen to you , he won’t listen to a counsellor. He only “ respects “ her now because she’s not saying anything he doesn’t like.

She is not going to say what you are scared to say. She should however be able to make a safe space where you can say what you want to. But she can’t name make him listen.

Your husband has what he wants now and he’s hanging on for as long as he can. He has blocked you at every turn and will continue to do so.

You need a solicitor. Your best hope for an amicable divorce is if he meets someone else quickly. The sooner you separate, the quicker this will happen.

This is exactly what I did, @Yoda323 I had my own counselling sessions, got myself into a place where I felt I could say the words "I want us to separate", took him to a couples session, and it ended up where he played the victim and somehow charmed the counsellor into agreeing it was me who should make more effort to make him happier! All this after months of her agreeing with me that there was nothing to save and that we were no more than friends anyway! I wanted her to tell him too. I suppose it was my way of getting someone else to do the hard work. But it will only work if it comes from you. And I know you feel like you're bashing your head against a brick wall as he conveniently 'forgets' everything you've said. Mine has done the same for more than two years. All you can do is keep reminding him, and as someone else has said, in April you can divorce him, and he can't do anything about it. This is my plan, but it's literally two weeks away (having waited two years for the law to change) and I'm terrified. Good luck

Counsellor doesn’t sound great IMO, eg seeing you separately, other than as a one off, emphasis on staying together.

You don’t need anyone’s permission to end the relationship.

agree with everyone else , you need to be blunt and tell the counsellor yo u dont want to carry on , you cant allow her to mumble on about she sees hope if you dont , shes not the one living with him , even if she does tell him she thinks theres no point in it carrying on thats not to say hes just going to continue as he is focusing on getting you to stay

i had all this malarky when i tried counselling with my ex , and in the end i just upped and left as i knew there was no point carrying on , i was totally done with being bullied and controlled , sometimes no amount of counselling can fix someone like that

How are things @Yoda323 have you gone ahead with the counselling? How did it go?

@betterno1

"He never listens to me and talks over me, never accepting responsibility for his actions and playing tit for tat and focussing on his problems however never initiates conversations to resolve them. I told him 6 months ago I wanted to split, he begged me and promised to change/make an effort then didn't mention it for 6 months 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️"

This word for word is my husband. He cannot take criticism at all, twists everything around onto me, will talk and talk over me so then i just stay silent to be hit with "im talking to you and your ignoring me", wont compromise as he is never wrong..

its so draining. I am planning to leave but it will be another 2 years until i am financially stable enough to do so.. xx

Mine too @betterno1and @Gemski38 In fact I was just saying to my friend this morning that I'm now convincing myself I've created the atmosphere in the house. I had felt that I was reacting to his unacceptable behaviour, but now wonder if he's doing these things in reaction to me and how I've pretty much given up even talking to him. He's just announced again that he's going to see a band tonight, which means I have to miss my exercise class again (it always ends up being Monday nights) and it's too late to reschedule so yet another payment down the drain. But if I reply to his email (yep, he tells me this by email) and tell him he's taking the piss, I know for a fact he'll say what's the point of him being in the house spending time with us when I don't speak to him. And in my mind I'll agree. It's so draining having everything turned round on you, especially when you doubt yourself so much.

So hard and draining isn't it, the thing is they push us to behave like this then blame us for ignoring them or not making an effort lol!

@19Bears what is your situation? @Gemski38 so glad you have a plan light at the end of the tunnel! X

Things have moved on here and we are now sleeping separately, he's trying to back me into a corner and agree to keep trying and I just can't agree told him I need space. I need to be brave I know. I've been looking at how I can afford to live and my options etc.

The kids also know as they have been asking why we are sleeping separately and we told them the truth was a relief! X