What happens if we can’t agree on custody split?

[thinkingSilver]

Hi everyone,

We are at the stage where we are trying to decide about the finances and children.
He has filed.
Neither of us are in another relationship.
We have two children aged 6 and 11. The youngest has a diagnosis for ASD, sensory processing disorder and anxiety.

He earns 135k in a senior role. I earn 31K and work 3 days a week as a teacher.

I’ve been the primary caregiver and look after them every weekend mornings when he sleeps late, I look after them every school holiday, organise all the play dates and take them to all activities and sport, bath them each night, read the phonics books, do the homework, the homeschooling during lockdown etc.

I’ve sent a proposal about the finances, and about the children. A detailed document of 4 pages. A financial advisor helped me with this.

He has now sent a response. He is insisting that he wants to have the children 50% of the time. He wants to do one week off and one week on.
I proposed that they stay with him every second weekend and have tea with him on a Wednesday.

Absolutely not the their best interest. Especially the child with ASD. He has never done any of the care before. He sometimes plays with them for short periods of time.
I feel there is a safeguarding element too because he sleeps late every weekend and he really is a deep sleeper. He loses his temper when they wake him up at 9:30am etc. Once he is awake then he is lovely with them. For short periods of time. The rest of the time he spends on his computer, online board games, phone, watching sport etc.
What will happen is that the 11 year old will be on her own on her room. On screens. And the 6 year old will watch a lot of TV and run from the one sofa to the next, something she does. Lots of repetitive behaviour for long periods of time. To regulate herself.

What will happen if we can’t agree how we are going to split the time between us?

What is Cafcass? Can they help?
Can the solicitor write to the paediatrician and the school to get their view of what is best?

What should I do as a next step?

If you can't agree then the court decides and unless there is a very good reason not to, they will probably give your ex 50/50. There's not really a good enough reason to refuse if you see what I mean. Lots of people are heavy sleepers.

Your 11 year old can decide for herself. What does SHE want?

@DenholmElliot

If you can't agree then the court decides and unless there is a very good reason not to, they will probably give your ex 50/50. There's not really a good enough reason to refuse if you see what I mean. Lots of people are heavy sleepers.

Your 11 year old can decide for herself. What does SHE want?

No they won’t. Contrary to peoples beliefs on mn, courts generally won’t award 50/50 contact. You’ll clearly be the resident parent op, as you are the main carer. Courts will usually aim for every other weekend, midweek contact and shared holidays for the non resident parent. When you consider your childrens disabilities and the fathers lack of interest, it’s clear which parent is being the most reasonable. They will take into consideration the childrens wishes. Are they likely to say they want to be with you most of the time?

Has he ever had them on his own?

If not my advice would be to say “ok well we are agreed about weekends so let’s start doing those now and revisit the other days on x date”

Then leave them with him for the full weekend from fri after school to mon drop back to school every other weekend. Don’t help/discuss/prep anything at all. Go stay with family/friends/hotel so you can’t get involved

I’d hazard a guess it’ll take 2 weekends before he changes his proposal....

Oh, and if you have any suspicion that he’s asking for 50/50 to upset you then I’d suggest enthusiastic discussion of how wonderful, fun, relaxing your weekend off was when you get back!!!

I would leave the kids with him for the whole weekend (from pick up on Friday through to drop off at school on Monday) and take yourself off somewhere nice. I bet he won't be asking for 50/50 when you get back....

He’s probably asking for 50/50 so he doesn’t have to contribute financially.

With your youngest needs and your husband working full time I can’t see him being given 50/50. Who will look after your kids on the days he works?

Thanks everyone.
Tomorrow morning is mediation session number 3.
Number 2 was a disaster, he lost his temper and threw all his toys out his cots. For tomorrow I’m definitely going to ask that we are in separate rooms. I don’t want to be intimidated and bullied like that.

Can I just ask, if it goes pear shaped quickly tomorrow, should I cut it short and say the solicitors should come to an agreement as mediation has not proven fruitful? And not attend any more mediation because there is no point? I don’t want this behaviour from him as it’s triggering for me - there is a case of DV. I called a police (once only, I wish I did more), and it is thoroughly recorded.

I’m just worried if I say it should go the solicitors route (and eventually court?!?), that this will get extremely expensive.

Don’t bother with solicitors, just go to court.

You shouldn’t even be attending mediation if there was even ONE incidence of abuse, and it doesn’t have be documented with the police.

However - just sit calmly in mediation and let him lose his rag again - they’ll soon deem him to volatile for mediation and will state that on their form, which will go in your favour.

LightfoldEngines, Sorry to sound silly but how do I go to court?
He filed for divorce? Shouldn’t he be the one coming up with a contract for financial matters first, and then child matters second?
I thought you apply for a financial order first? And then the child agreement second?
Please help. What is my next step.
(Mediation will be stopped after tomorrow definitely)

You should have disclosed the abuse to the mediators at your initial meeting with them, they would have said it was unsuitable and given you a form - which you then use to apply to court.

No it doesn’t have to be him that applies to court.

You need a really good solicitor, although I’d advise a Direct Access Barrister to be honest, whilst they are more expensive they have the skills needed to deal with these assholes that solicitors just don’t have.

You need to ensure that you get a decent financial settlement and that your children are kept safe.

Have you had ANY legal advice whatsoever?!

Yes, I have a solicitor and I have had legal advice. But the solicitor is just not capable enough.
The DV was disclosed at the first mediation session (the individual one), and it was recommended that we still attempt mediation, even in different rooms.
Clearly, this is a disaster.

I am meeting a barrister tomorrow afternoon (not in official capacity, she is a school mum), and she has already this afternoon given me a name of a very good solicitor and have said I should say that she referred me.
I just need some pointers towards next steps, and if I can apply for a financial consent order etc.
Necree Nisi has a court hearing on the 2nd or March.

@Unknown83

Message deleted by MNHQ

As the younger child has ASD it may not be possible for both parents to work full-time. I am a highly qualified professional with a son with level 3 Autism. There are a lot of therapy appointmentds eg weekly speech therapy, weekly OT, doctors etc. I work 3 days a week and schedule appointments for the days I don't work. Very few of the mother's I meet in waiting rooms with significantly disabled kids work much at all, it's too hard, especially dealing with the constant calls from school to deal with issues, pick up your child if unsettled etc. Of course it could be the father who drops work hours to sit in therapist waiting rooms, but after 12 years of doing this I have seen very few of them .

@Maxiedog123

I hear where you are coming from but I'm basing this on the fact the OP not only already works three days a week full time but does so as a teacher and will therefore work long hours on those days and start very early in the morning. Clearly there is either wraparound care or the EXH is already doing some of the regular childcare. If he did 50/50 with her, working full-time therefore seems plausible but obviously I don't have all of the facts.

If she wasn't working at all or working in a less stressful job then that might indicate a different story but this case doesn't sound like one where either of them can work less than full time.

I think @Unknown83 has made some very astute points.
As parents, you should be using 50.50 as a starting point in living arrangements. OP, you’re making it sound like your children don’t actually like their father - when in reality they most likely love him as much as they love you. Parents should be doing their utmost to ensure the children have as good a relationship with their other parent as possible.
You made the decision to work part time whilst your ex worked full time - I presume you enjoyed the benefits of his income whilst choosing to work part time. You have the children in all the holidays because you are a teacher! So obviously you spend more time with them doing a bigger percentage of the parenting. I too am a teacher (albeit worked full time throughout my career) and when I left my ex, we agreed to a trial period of 50/50 primarily because we had both witnessed several friends of ours fighting over custody of their kids, where the biggest losers of this were the children. I also see it in school - as I’m sure you must - where children suffer when parents fight over them in comparison with children who have a settled arrangement because their parents can manage to put the kids needs first and so co-parent well.

You want your children to go from seeing their dd every night and every weekend to seeing him the equivalent of 4 days and a couple of hours once a week. That’s a massive reduction in their time with him.

Shouldn't it be a case of maintaining the current childcare arrangements initially? To give the children some kind of continuity & supporting them through the process.

Then building up contact at the children's pace?

So a transition process, allowing OP to gradually build up her career again & her STBX to make his work arrangements to promote a greater responsibility for home life? like hell he will

Child maintenance is the bane of high earners. Maybe you could negotiate a private arrangement with him rather than going through CMS?

Thank you for the comments today. @Unknown83 I am certainly not motivated by money and can assure you that the best interests of the children are at heart.
For example, I have already bought the same wall stickers 6 year old currently has and have collected a nice collection of things to help make a set up at their dad very nice and much the same, especially for the one with ASD.
Regarding my expectation to sort the financials - this is my first time ever going through something like this and initially I was under the impression that a financial consent order gets in place first, and then the children separately. But I could be wrong and I certainly don’t have motivations that isn’t proper!

Regarding the “alleged DV”. This is upsetting.
Important to note that the DV was towards me always and not the children.

The inability to sit in a room together and discuss the split like grown ups… I would like to do this, but if he loses his temper then I feel intimidated and it is massively triggering!

@Soontobe60,
I feel hurt when you say that you presume that I enjoyed the benefits of his income whilst choosing to work part time.
I don’t think it’s fair to say that I enjoyed his income at all. I think what you don’t know is that he buys himself breakfast, lunch and often dinner and has done that for years, and goes to expensive restaurants, much more expensive than I have ever been, I had the latest IPhone, has a gym membership and spends a big chunk of money on himself each month, bought an IPad for his parents, goes to shows etc etc. I pack leftover food for myself to eat, most of my clothing are from charity shops or eBay, I rarely go to restaurants, don’t have a gym membership, I would like to afford counselling (he sees a physiologist every week), and I have attended an initial assessment session but can’t afford the extra 4 x £50 sessions a month. In addition, before I would spend any money on myself, I would rather take my 6 year old to speech therapy and the 11 year old to counselling because I think she is really struggling!
I think the way we live and spend money is so different and it’s not right!

@Soontobe60 You have said that I make it sound like the children don’t actually like their father - when in reality they most likely love him as much as they love you.
I am sorry that I have you this impression.
They definitely do love him dearly! When he does spend time with him, it is short but intense sessions and high quality.
Quality over quantity.
The concern is simply that I do not want the 6 year old with ASD to have changes to her sleeping middle of the week!
Just this evening we had massive tears at dinner. She was upset and asked me why she didn’t get a certain meal at school dinners like she always did, and why I booked something different. I explained gently that the dinner ladies change the menu after every half-term. She was so upset and said and I quote, “I hate change!”
I know she will find it very difficult if she has to move from one house to the other middle of the week. And her social, emotional and behavioural incidences will soon increase massively at school, including the biting etc etc etc. The calls from the school…

I would much rather have a gentle and slow transition with lots of play dates at both houses. And I would like both parents to share a happy and excited mood, at least for the children.
I will try my hardest.

Regarding the 3 days a week work from me. I would have to chance schools for this. It isn’t possible at the small school where I work currently. It is something I can do in the future, but right now I would not like to change my job. After all, it wasn’t my decision for divorce. It was his! I love my team at work and it is the one thing keeping me sane at the moment. My children are my world and my job too.

How the childcare works at the moment is,
Monday - Wednesday. I dress youngest, do water bottles, pack school bags, a Year 13 student comes and help me at 7:15 and takes youngest to school at 8:30. I leave for work at 7:20. He wakes up any time from 7-7:40, takes shower and leaves.
I leave work at 5pm, pick youngest up from after school club, cook dinner, bath, read phonics books etc. Oldest gets the bus to school and back. He comes home at 7:25-7:45pm.
On Thursday and Fridays I drive them both to school and back. On Thursday afternoon I drive them to gymnastics and Stem class. And on a Friday I try and arrange a play date.

The reason why I started this to work part time many years ago, was initially because of the 4 miscarriages and IVF treatment and how difficult that was emotionally. And when all that was over, we just found it too difficult with both of us working full time and managing sick children and their schedules. At least when I was much more with them, I could look after them when they were sick, take them to doctors, take youngest to her appointments etc.
I didn’t earn enough to employ a nanny to help us with all of it.

I hope I’ve explained it better.

What's your pint @Unknown83? You seem quite hostile?

What are his shifts? Any judge/ Cafcass officer would agree that whilst he is at work the children should be with you. Also one week on one week off would heavily disrupt the childrens routine and they wouldn't feel they had a home- where would they be when he was in work?
Advise the court that whilst you want the children to see their father you wish to be asked to care for them first in any instance before any other family member or friend, explain that he works full time you work part time to care for the children and you want to continue to do that. Propose your every other weekend and Wednesday tea bit add a second night for tea or a midweek sleep over after work and then to you or school on the week he doesn't have them for the weekend.

It's important you show the judge and Cafcass your being fair and open to contact but you just don't want others looking after your children when you are available.

Your 11 year old will have more of a say than the 6 year old due to their age. Self refer to NYAS for a independent children's advocate to speak to the children and share their views in court- Cafcass don't always like this but it ensures their voice is heard and it's independent.
If you are not yet at court stage MIAM mediation will be offered first and hopefully you can iron out issues there.
Hope this helps

Am I really being that unreasonable to think that's a bit weird, that the posts don't make sense?

Yes. Yes You are. Very.

Has it occurred to you that the reason the op did what she did because of her children? To make them feel better? If you've never experienced DV, perhaps you don't get it it, but it's really not always as black and white as it seems. Especially when kids are involved. And even more so when those kids have special needs.

HTH