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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

6 Years Divorced, Narcissist, threatening consent order - HELP!

3 replies

moreplantsthanfucks · 29/01/2022 11:02

Oh where do I start. Please bear with me and I will bullet point for FACTS, trying to keep motherly emotion out of it!

married father of children in 2015 (aged 4, 4 and 2 at time)
divorced in 2016 (i thought marriage would make things better...)
marriage broke down - simple as that, no third parties (we'd been together for 10 years and just grown apart)
went to mediation, clean financial break divorce ensued
his family completely disowned me (not a word since before we separated)
he proceeded to basically break/bend almost every agreed mediation point - including introducing kids to his new GF without a word of even courtesy to me - the kids told me all about her (its been 5 years now theyve bought a house together and ive still only ever seen her twice)
always shown very obvious narcissism - its very frightening
he sold his house which was less than 1km to kids school and my home and moved 10 miles away - without mentioning a word until he took the kids there saying "this is your new house" - they came home and told me
asked me to provide a detailed list of al the things i spend the child maintenance on and threatened to stop paying if i didn't
i took the kids on holiday to majorca for 10 nights, he agreed this and i made sure he had lots of time wrapped around the holiday so he could see the kids
he then took the kids abroad for a 7 night holiday, then refused to bring the kids home for another 3 nights, not answering calls, he simply sent a text saying "you had them for 10 nights, i am too"... this was not arranged

the last six years has been bearable as we barely communicate unless its about the kids arrangements. now all of a sudden, literally like a bolt out of the blue, he emailed (he talks to me like i work for him, he treats the kids like commodities) saying he wants to move to a 50/50 child care arrangement therefore negating the requirement to pay child maintenance anymore. he sent a very comprehensive list of "agreed shared child costs", even down to things like, if i buy an item deemed as a shared cost and he pays me 50%, then i got that item refunded, within 3 business days he wants his 50% repaid to him.

he earns an estimated £65k+ per year. when we did full financial disclosure back in 2016, it turned out he had a private pension of over £100k, a maxed out ISA, savings of over £15k and had been transferring money to his father to "look after". he also recently admitted in more mediation sessions that his initial child maintenance calculation had been "conservative". I am self employed and file around £10k annually, therefore receive tax credits and kids entitled to FSM. when we divorced, i got 78%, as i basically had nothing to start again with, because i had been putting all my income including child benefit into the marital home, still contributing 50% of all costs, despite him earning in excess of £55k and me being a stay at home mom, occasionally doing some freelance work. he still says "you got a good deal from the divorce" as his answer to everything related to finances.

at the moment the agreement kids are with him 3 nights per week on average. the kids know exactly where they stand, what the routine is and are great, happy kids. they are "pleasers", so basically they do what they feel is their duty. i never bad mouth dad or his fiance, i always encourage them to want to go to his (they used to scream and cry and refuse to leave me when he would come to my house to pick them up, in the end we had to agree he would pick them up from/drop them off to school in order to prevent the kids feeling like they could choose who to stay/go with) and when the kids are not at home with me, i work work work and just prep for their return.

basically - WTF do i do? I agree its great he is in the picture, i agree its great he is willing to contribute financially, but after all these years of it being OK, he's now saying he wants to arrange a court approved consent order, that i should get some legal advice, that its better the kids spend equal amounts of time with each parent, etc etc. he said, when i asked how he thought i would cope financially without maintenance payments, that maybe while he had the kids more, i could use that time to work more or "get a better job".

shall i get a solicitor? can he just make me sign HIS order that says we agreed it, when i have agreed nothing? mediation was not helpful, as i said i didnt want things to change and he kept insisting on it being his way, obviously the mediator couldnt make us agree. ive spoken to the kids as subtly as possible (they are very emotionally mature for their ages) and they said "why are we having to go to dads on tuesdays now - we dont see you for 5 sleeps in a row" .... hes immediately put the changes in without agreement from me or this consent order.

im kind of lost as to what else to say and really need some advice from someone who can relate or has been through something similar!

SOS

OP posts:
SomewhereOnlyIKnow · 29/01/2022 11:05

Do not agree to anything. Seek legal advice.
Keep any threatening/ offensive texts/emails.

Pinkyxx · 29/01/2022 13:37

Consent means exactly that, that the parties agreed. You don't agree so he has to accept that. If he wants a court arrangement he needs to take the matter to court and explain why it is in the children's best interests to change the arrangements that have been in place.

Until then don't be bullied, stick the arrangements you had & be strong.

Unknown83 · 29/01/2022 20:00

@moreplantsthanfucks

Oh where do I start. Please bear with me and I will bullet point for FACTS, trying to keep motherly emotion out of it!

married father of children in 2015 (aged 4, 4 and 2 at time)
divorced in 2016 (i thought marriage would make things better...)
marriage broke down - simple as that, no third parties (we'd been together for 10 years and just grown apart)
went to mediation, clean financial break divorce ensued
his family completely disowned me (not a word since before we separated)
he proceeded to basically break/bend almost every agreed mediation point - including introducing kids to his new GF without a word of even courtesy to me - the kids told me all about her (its been 5 years now theyve bought a house together and ive still only ever seen her twice)
always shown very obvious narcissism - its very frightening
he sold his house which was less than 1km to kids school and my home and moved 10 miles away - without mentioning a word until he took the kids there saying "this is your new house" - they came home and told me
asked me to provide a detailed list of al the things i spend the child maintenance on and threatened to stop paying if i didn't
i took the kids on holiday to majorca for 10 nights, he agreed this and i made sure he had lots of time wrapped around the holiday so he could see the kids
he then took the kids abroad for a 7 night holiday, then refused to bring the kids home for another 3 nights, not answering calls, he simply sent a text saying "you had them for 10 nights, i am too"... this was not arranged

the last six years has been bearable as we barely communicate unless its about the kids arrangements. now all of a sudden, literally like a bolt out of the blue, he emailed (he talks to me like i work for him, he treats the kids like commodities) saying he wants to move to a 50/50 child care arrangement therefore negating the requirement to pay child maintenance anymore. he sent a very comprehensive list of "agreed shared child costs", even down to things like, if i buy an item deemed as a shared cost and he pays me 50%, then i got that item refunded, within 3 business days he wants his 50% repaid to him.

he earns an estimated £65k+ per year. when we did full financial disclosure back in 2016, it turned out he had a private pension of over £100k, a maxed out ISA, savings of over £15k and had been transferring money to his father to "look after". he also recently admitted in more mediation sessions that his initial child maintenance calculation had been "conservative". I am self employed and file around £10k annually, therefore receive tax credits and kids entitled to FSM. when we divorced, i got 78%, as i basically had nothing to start again with, because i had been putting all my income including child benefit into the marital home, still contributing 50% of all costs, despite him earning in excess of £55k and me being a stay at home mom, occasionally doing some freelance work. he still says "you got a good deal from the divorce" as his answer to everything related to finances.

at the moment the agreement kids are with him 3 nights per week on average. the kids know exactly where they stand, what the routine is and are great, happy kids. they are "pleasers", so basically they do what they feel is their duty. i never bad mouth dad or his fiance, i always encourage them to want to go to his (they used to scream and cry and refuse to leave me when he would come to my house to pick them up, in the end we had to agree he would pick them up from/drop them off to school in order to prevent the kids feeling like they could choose who to stay/go with) and when the kids are not at home with me, i work work work and just prep for their return.

basically - WTF do i do? I agree its great he is in the picture, i agree its great he is willing to contribute financially, but after all these years of it being OK, he's now saying he wants to arrange a court approved consent order, that i should get some legal advice, that its better the kids spend equal amounts of time with each parent, etc etc. he said, when i asked how he thought i would cope financially without maintenance payments, that maybe while he had the kids more, i could use that time to work more or "get a better job".

shall i get a solicitor? can he just make me sign HIS order that says we agreed it, when i have agreed nothing? mediation was not helpful, as i said i didnt want things to change and he kept insisting on it being his way, obviously the mediator couldnt make us agree. ive spoken to the kids as subtly as possible (they are very emotionally mature for their ages) and they said "why are we having to go to dads on tuesdays now - we dont see you for 5 sleeps in a row" .... hes immediately put the changes in without agreement from me or this consent order.

im kind of lost as to what else to say and really need some advice from someone who can relate or has been through something similar!

SOS

He's done some things he can't do, like asking you to itemise how you spend child maintenance, having the kids 3 days longer than he should have once and funnelling money to his father (which probably had more to do with the eventual asset split than you starting again with nothing), but I'm not convinced he's a narcissist from what I'm reading. He looks more like a guy willing to stand up for himself and occasionally crossing the line because - just like you - he's bewildered by the laws surrounding divorce. Also, I get the distinct impression that you don't like him introducing his girlfriend to his children - it's not going to feel great but it's something you do have to deal with after a divorce.

Now, I'm no solicitor but looking at this from the higher earner's perspective I don't think what he's suggesting is all unreasonable but some of it is unworkable. The reason he talks to you in a business like fashion is probably because he's been told to do that by a solicitor to avoid arguments or messy email chains that can be exploited or misconstrued as "emotional abuse." It's probably for the same reason that he avoids talking to you. After all, you are willing to claim he is a narcissist when in reality he just sounds like a bloke who doesn't agree with you.

Now, let's deal with the facts one by one:

  1. 50/50 childcare. Not really going to work if he's 10 miles away is it? How's he going to do school runs without massive disruption to his work life? In the same boat as him, I have to make sure I stay in catchment of my children's school. He'll need to demonstrate how this is workable;

  2. He earns £65k. That's not very much really, not nowadays. To get 78% you did incredibly well especially as you had a little business with growth potential. However, I suspect you did well because the idiot transferred money to his dad. Also, when I said did well I'm sort of saying that tongue in cheek because I bet his dad handed him his money back after the divorce and the split was not so dramatic. Every case is different but most of the people I've spoken to on that kind of money and with young children got closer to 60/40.

  3. You could be earning a lot more. Your youngest child is 8. You should be working at least 25 hours a week and claiming universal credit if you are not already. Even on minimum wage your income plus universal credit and child benefit should be around £18.5k net. Really, you ought to be working to improve your situation and earn more than minimum wage too; depending on a little hobby business making only £10k really isn't on and you should be maximising your earning capacity either by building up the business or doing something else. It should not be the responsibility of an ex to top you up because you would rather have a little cottage industry than a proper job.

  4. He's absolutely within his rights to put his foot down and demand you do that because finances and childcare are separate issues and it simply isn't acceptable to say you need the children more in order to get money. You say he treats the kids as a commodity but in this respect it is you and not him putting a price on their heads.

  5. They don't like being with Dad as much as Mum. Happens in pretty much every divorce from time to time. All the more reason to work on the weaker relationship, it's in the long term interests of the children to do that.

  6. You don't have to sign a consent order but you can be taken to court and if childcare is already 3/4 now then I don't see any particular reason why it could not become more or less than that. Court would be a roll of the dice and that roll will cost a lot of money. Plus you would go in knowing you're fighting a reasonable request.

So, what would I do in your situation? I would be thinking about doing the following:

  1. Considering my career options and maximising my earnings;

  2. Getting legal advice on the probability that his claim for 50/50 care would be successful. And listening to that advice and not dragging it through the courts if the solicitor tells you your chances are slim. I think it all hinges on the distance away from you that he lives;

  3. Getting over the breakup and not throwing words like "narcissist" around just because someone stands up to you.

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