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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

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Original poster

Summer holiday arrangements

20 replies

toobusytothink · 16/01/2022 07:55

Looking for some advice on the interpretation of my OH’s childcare arrangements order for him please… it was only legalised in September so fairly new and no precedent set yet.

So term time it’s all fine - he has them one night during the week and EOW from Friday 3:30pm until Monday 8:30am and that has been going smoothly.
The order states that the term time arrangements are suspended during the holidays and that my OH has the kids for 1 week at Easter, 1 week at Christmas and 2 weeks in the summer. Christmas worked well as him and his ex had 1 week running from Friday-Friday each, and Easter he is also having them for one whole week Friday-Friday where the w/e has included his “usual” weekend. But summer there is disagreement. How would you interpret this please? That my OH has the kids from say Friday-Friday for 2 different full weeks? Or the EOW still applies and then he basically has them for 10 “work days”?
Hope that makes sense… many thanks

OP posts:

unicornsarereal72 · 16/01/2022 08:21

Eow remains constant. Additional weeks are planned in regardless of this. Although I would aim for as little disruption as possible. So maybe 2 separate weeks starting on the Monday to include the usual eow at the end of the week.

Original poster

toobusytothink · 16/01/2022 08:58

Thank you. Bumping to see if others agree/disagree

OP posts:

bongobingo43 · 16/01/2022 08:58

I don't think the eow remains constant as the OP says this is "suspended"

So I'd say it is either 2 full weeks or 2 x 1 full week only?

Not talking about what I think it should be or what I think is fair. That's only my interpretation of the bit you've quoted

Original poster

toobusytothink · 16/01/2022 09:04

Thank you. Yes just looking at interpretation. Unfortunately things are not great between them so they have to stick to the order exactly with no flexibility but now there’s argument over the order 🙄

OP posts:

zafferana · 16/01/2022 09:39

I think the variation in the holidays is to allow both parents to take their DC away for a week/two weeks at a time without it being a cause for argument, negotiation or further legal wrangling.

My DF had EOW with us, but in the summer holidays we'd have a 2-week holiday with him and a 2-week holiday with DM (EOW was suspended during those weeks so neither parent had to rush back from wherever we were to enable the regular weekend access to take place). As to whether it's one continuous 2-week period or two 1-week periods is up to them to arrange.

Chasingsquirrels · 16/01/2022 09:41

@bongobingo43

I don't think the eow remains constant as the OP says this is "suspended"

So I'd say it is either 2 full weeks or 2 x 1 full week only?

Not talking about what I think it should be or what I think is fair. That's only my interpretation of the bit you've quoted

I'd say this.

ThisMustBeMyDream · 16/01/2022 09:50

Well, that's a terrible order! I can't imagine why they would state term time arrangements suspended during holidays, when they don't have equal division of the holiday time!
What happened in oct half term OP? And what about feb half term? Is he missing out on his weekends at those times because "term time arrangements suspended"?
I'd interpret the order as 2 consecutive weeks for each party, and then the final 2 weeks God knows! For me I'd say he should be having his normal contact in that time, but the order says suspended, which means mum has 4 weeks and they don't see dad (unless mum has first 2 weeks, dad second 2 weeks, mum third 2, but that is restrictive).
Personally, if they can't agree I'd ask the court to clarify the wording. If no joy there, go to mediation.

Original poster

toobusytothink · 16/01/2022 09:53

Thank you. That’s really useful. Thinking now the problem is that a lot of holidays run from Friday-Friday or Saturday-Saturday so that is obviously 8 days and not an exact week. Would you think that this would count as “1 week” then he could do another 8 days as another week? It’s so acrimonious it’s ridiculous. Only thing with having 2 full weeks is it wound mean he could potentially go quite a long time without seeing his kids. Think if this is the interpretation he would rather have 1 full week to go away somewhere plus another 7 days ad hoc.

OP posts:

Original poster

toobusytothink · 16/01/2022 09:55

@ThisMustBeMyDream half terms are not deemed holidays and they follow usual routine

OP posts:

Original poster

toobusytothink · 16/01/2022 09:56

And I agree worry is if she has them for 4 weeks he could go a long time without seeing them

OP posts:

ThisMustBeMyDream · 16/01/2022 09:58

Having 7 days makes holidays in the traditional sense impossible. You would need 8 days to be able to holiday for a week.

Nailsbythesea · 16/01/2022 10:02

Normally termtime is suspended completed from the 1 st day of the child’s holiday to the last day including inset days for the child. There are no ‘weekends during this time’ father will have two weeks from whatever day they can agree eg 1 st of august for 14 nights and then return on the day after that

notyouagainn · 16/01/2022 10:05

I'd say eow plus two full weeks. I'd work this so the beginning Friday falls on a weekend he would already have the kids just for ease. Otherwise he wouldn't see them for a month and that's way too long.

wobytide · 16/01/2022 10:25

It sounds a depressingly rigid order but I'd have expected the summer holiday to be split 2/2/2 based on the wording or if he didn't want 2 weeks together split into single weeks. But I don't see there is anyway it can be achieved realistically that there won't be a two week period at some point where he won't see them so the other parent can take them away the same as he is permitted.
Just bear in mind that whatever is chosen now will become the norm going forward so I'd avoid doing something that involves lots of single ad-hoc days during the summer.

Hopefully on future they both may calm down and the children will make their feelings known about what they would prefer too

caringcarer · 16/01/2022 12:06

I would think 14 days or 2 full weeks.

caringcarer · 16/01/2022 12:09

Court order just stared 2 weeks, does not have to be 2 consecutive weeks. He could have say week 2 and week 5 of summer holidays. That way longest he would not see them would be 2 weeks.

zafferana · 16/01/2022 13:36

@toobusytothink

Yes, I can see this could be an issue if the relationship between the exes is very acrimonious and inflexible.

When we went away for two weeks with dad, say we were leaving early on Saturday morning, we'd go to him on Fri night and then perhaps not go back to mum until the Sunday two weeks later if we were then arriving back from the holiday late on Saturday. All of which is fine if the two DPs are reasonable.

If your DP and his ex have a very acrimonious relationship it may mean you need to do a six, 10 or 12-day holiday so that the DC can be returned on the correct day, but that doesn't fit with most package holidays, which tend to be Sat-Sat. It helps if they can both be adult and reasonable, otherwise the ones to suffer will be the DC.

zafferana · 16/01/2022 13:38

OP, if things really are very acrimonious is there any possibility of mediation to thrash out the exact terms of the agreement regarding the summer holidays?

Nailsbythesea · 16/01/2022 14:23

@zafferana

OP, if things really are very acrimonious is there any possibility of mediation to thrash out the exact terms of the agreement regarding the summer holidays?

Mediation will have failed if there is a court order.

My ex fought tooth and nail for a week at Easter when I offered 50/50 of holidays - however given his holiday is 3 weeks at Easter this year the rigid court order only gives him 7 nights - so he got less time by fighting for more time. I would either take 7 nights and then 7 nights later but really if he can be as accommodating to his ex as possible considering she does the lions share of parenting that’s different so if he says 50% of summer holiday is 3 weeks and not 2 please can I have 1 1/2 and then 11/2 if he gets her to agree by being nice it sets a precedent for next summer. But really it is fair that if you do the bulk of day to day parents you get slightly more of the holiday. My ex wanted more than 50% of the holidays and he does no weekends during term time - judge wasn’t impressed that he wanted 100% of holidays and just to be ‘fun Disney day’ he could start by offering to take him and opick him up from an activity in the week to try build a better relationship.

If my ex was nice I played nice - if he threw his homework on his time so returned it back undone or refused to be a normal parent as opposed to letting him playing video games solely in his time - that’s when it backfired and if he asked for an extra time I responded busy with homework etc

Original poster

toobusytothink · 16/01/2022 14:49

Thanks all. Well I think looking at it, it has to be accepted that it means 14 nights however that works out. Ironically she has told him that she is going away for a week with her bf so he has to have them that week (fine - he will take them away) and then asked him to have them another few days which includes a w/e so she can go away again with her b/f, then she has asked to have the kids for 2 specific long weekends to take them away. Then apparently he’s free to pick and choose as many as he wants out of the remaining … although officially he’s only allowed another 3. She’s now complaining she gets only 2 child free weekends. But she wouldn’t allow 50:50. Honestly I give up trying to work her out.

OP posts:

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