Divorce won't move out

[Lubel25]

Hi there,
Apologies for the long thread.
I just desperately need some perspective here. I began divorce proceedings in October 2020 after 10 awful years of emotional abuse, and generally being treated like crap. We have just got to decree nisi stage and I have run out of money to push things forward. He has refused to contribute to mediation costs.
To cut a long story short, I have been begging my husband to sell our house for 6 years but he refuses to do so or to move out, and I had a breakdown in September (after he returned after 4 months in Australia) due to all the stress and was hospitalised for 5 days with a life-threatening seizure.
That was in October and since then, I've got a full-time job so I could start trying to get a rental with the help of UC. He insists that I am using coercive control by not signing up to another fixed rate deal on our mortgage and that I am selling our kids down the river financially as I'll never be able to afford to buy alone (I won't) and I am not very hot financially so he is really getting into my head.
To confuse things further, I overheard him speaking to HR in his job about a year long transfer to Australia (he is Australian) This would start this July and there is 50/50 he will get it and won't know until late Feb (if he actually tells me).
So now I can't get a rental as we face the prospect of him possibly being away for a year and a heftily mortgaged house standing empty. Him going would be great for me but it means us living together for another 6 months after 10 years of hell.
My question really is, how do people progress with divorce costs with no money?
Am I right to think selling the house is the best option?
How can I get back some power? I am educated and seemingly intelligent, but just can't get myself out of this marriage and feel totally trapped and as if I am failing my 2 lovely daughters every day.

"Emotional abuse is a pattern of behaviour in which the perpetrator insults, humiliates, and generally instils fear in an individual in order to control them. The individual's reality may become distorted as they internalise the abuse as their own failings."

For what it's worth, I think he's treating you like crap but he's probably not emotionally abusing you in the criminal sense. If he was, you wouldn't have dared to beg for a house sale for 6 years and you certainly wouldn't have dared to refuse to get another fixed rate mortgage. The impression you give me is of someone in a nasty divorce that is extremely stressful and you don't know the steps you need to take to get out of it.

My advice is that you need to start thinking with your head and not your heart. First of all, if I'm wrong about the emotional abuse (I don't know you) then I apologise, but nine times out of ten in a divorce these claims are hyperbole and roughly translate as "my ex isn't agreeing to the divorce settlement I want." So if you're going to make claims like this, be ready to back them up with evidence because whilst the system is geared up to believe you in the short term to protect you, in the long term if you're found to have exaggerated it can come back to bite you, especially if the outcomes have tangible negative outcomes for the accused. That's the first thing.

The second thing you need to do is get a free 30 minutes with a solicitor. You'll probably find they're quite willing to overrun if you ask about how you can pay them. Basically, you need the house gone and your name off the mortgage. Three options really. Either the house sells, but he's blocking that. Or he buys you out, which seems unlikely if he plans to leave the country. Or you get a court order for it to sell. That'll cost, but if he refuses to go down the mediation route there's a fair chance he'll have to pay your legal fees as well as his own.

Sorry to be brief and to the point:

If it is emotional abuse a solicitor can give you legal aid. See Womens Aid website.

It is nonsense he is spinning about you not being able to afford a mortgage/ finances on your own. As married partners your assets are pooled and shared according to need.

The family home could even be awarded to you with a Mesher Order, or an equity offset against his pension (if he is the higher earner).

A protection order can be obtained. It would be scary but it can be done. Emotional abuse is illegal.

Hang in there. Look up capital gains tax for moving out and renting; there's a 9 month limit unless claiming PPR.

I hope you stay strong and get rid of this sorry excuse of a man who is treating you so badly. X

Oh, and the other thing you can do is apply to the court to force a sale. A hearing will then decide, possibly that a Mesher Order is appropriate.

I also read about a case whereby a force of sale was applied for, after emotional abuse and the woman feeling compelled to move out and rent, and the judge enforcing that if the man wanted to stay there he had to pay her rent.

@JadeGreen19

Oh, and the other thing you can do is apply to the court to force a sale. A hearing will then decide, possibly that a Mesher Order is appropriate.

I doubt a Mesher Order would be appropriate if there is emotional abuse ongoing. A Mesher Order would keep him in the picture for years until the house finally sold. Also, it doesn't sound like the OP would have sufficient income to pay the mortgage.

Oh yes, valid points.

Hi there.
Thanks for your messages. It has made me feel a lot less alone. @FutureXH, I take your point about emotional abuse - and it is a term I avoided until my hospitalisation when everyone else involved in my care started to use the term to describe his behaviour towards me. Basically, he tells me nothing (I would not have known about his plans re Australia if I hadn't overheard the conversation), nobody pre-Covid could come to the house without him kicking off, he hasn't asked me a direct question in 10 years (he doesn't even know who I work for), and threatens me constantly about the mortgage - he claims to have reported me for financial coercive control to our mortgage provider, and to the benefits office although I have done nothing wrong. He also tells the children I'm a bully when I try to discipline them. I don't know whether that could legally be termed as emotional abuse but it's shitty to live with and by refusing to engage with divorce or mediation, or to sell the house or share his plans, he is basically trapping us all in a terribly toxic environment which has brought my mental health to the brink several times.
Some helpful points @JadeGreen19. What is a PPR?
I guess my question is, does he have a point about the mortgage? Should we try and keep the house at all costs? He claims he will move out if I sign a new mortgage deal but I just don't trust him. He is right that I will never be able to afford a mortgage on my own, and he can afford to pay this one (just about) but couldn't possibly buy me out.
Neither of us are that young and the financial future (for me at least) is shaky but I just want out of this and for the kids to have something calmer and happier, and as soon as possible.
When I could afford a solicitor (run out of money) he advised that it could take 18 months to get a sale order through and would be expensive but I can't sign a rental if he might be hopping off to Oz, and I can't afford any more mediation (£600 a go as he refused to contribute).
I am aware I sound pathetic, but just can't see the wood from the trees.

What is the issue with signing a fixed rate? Is it that you can’t sell in time frame of the fixed rate?Aren’t variable rates low anyway at the moment or is it the uncertainty of a variable rate?
Can you wait to February to make the decision?
Why is he wanting to move to Australia and keep the house? Do you think he wants to return or is it just for your daughters? Or is it that financially you both would be better of keeping verses selling?
Why does the house have to be empty couldn’t it be rented out? While both of you live elsewhere?
Sorry I realise this is a lot of questions. These are the financial questions I would be thinking of. This doesn’t address any of the emotions. I’m sorry you are going through such a difficult time

@Lubel25

Hi there. Thanks for your messages. It has made me feel a lot less alone. *@FutureXH*, I take your point about emotional abuse - and it is a term I avoided until my hospitalisation when everyone else involved in my care started to use the term to describe his behaviour towards me. Basically, he tells me nothing (I would not have known about his plans re Australia if I hadn't overheard the conversation), nobody pre-Covid could come to the house without him kicking off, he hasn't asked me a direct question in 10 years (he doesn't even know who I work for), and threatens me constantly about the mortgage - he claims to have reported me for financial coercive control to our mortgage provider, and to the benefits office although I have done nothing wrong. He also tells the children I'm a bully when I try to discipline them. I don't know whether that could legally be termed as emotional abuse but it's shitty to live with and by refusing to engage with divorce or mediation, or to sell the house or share his plans, he is basically trapping us all in a terribly toxic environment which has brought my mental health to the brink several times. Some helpful points *@JadeGreen19*. What is a PPR? I guess my question is, does he have a point about the mortgage? Should we try and keep the house at all costs? He claims he will move out if I sign a new mortgage deal but I just don't trust him. He is right that I will never be able to afford a mortgage on my own, and he can afford to pay this one (just about) but couldn't possibly buy me out. Neither of us are that young and the financial future (for me at least) is shaky but I just want out of this and for the kids to have something calmer and happier, and as soon as possible. When I could afford a solicitor (run out of money) he advised that it could take 18 months to get a sale order through and would be expensive but I can't sign a rental if he might be hopping off to Oz, and I can't afford any more mediation (£600 a go as he refused to contribute). I am aware I sound pathetic, but just can't see the wood from the trees.

If there is emotional abuse going on, then you must keep a diary. This is important because without it you're basically relying on hearsay.

The next thing you need to do is blow the whole thing up. Don't worry about legal costs. If he's refusing to mediate, they'll come from his share. Not much pisses a judge off more than having to hear a case because one party refused to even try to mediate. Get yourself a nice solicitor and start forcing through the sale. Start with a final letter offering mediation for the last time and go from there.

These are really good questions @Upsidedownpineapplecake.
He wants to keep the house so the children have a stable home, as even if we sell, it's unlikely that I'd be able to buy and would be renting. I can see his point, but in his mind, this involves us all staying under one roof (which has been intolerable for a very long time) or me moving out, which I'm not adverse to doing (although I think it would make more sense for him to move out.
The property is too run down to rent out, and I've backed off signing a new fixed rate as I feel it could trap me for another two or three years in this hell with him, and even if he went to Australia, there's a strong chance he'd move back in which is something I want to avoid.
I just don't know whether I'm being irrational and financially naive about not signing up to another fixed rate deal, but to me it seems irrational to sign another mortgage deal with someone where all trust and communication has completely broken down.

Ppr; principle private residence

I hope it works out for you. I think you need a solicitor and consider finding a way to pay the costs. You seem to have a case for emotional abuse, and therefore legal aid possibly.

You berate yourself in your text, and I wonder if you have accessed any counselling or mental health support.

I am going through divorce. It is super stressful.

Your situation sounds untenable and he sounds like he is being very controlling over the assets.

@JadeGreen19

I hope it works out for you. I think you need a solicitor and consider finding a way to pay the costs. You seem to have a case for emotional abuse, and therefore legal aid possibly.

You berate yourself in your text, and I wonder if you have accessed any counselling or mental health support.

I am going through divorce. It is super stressful.

Your situation sounds untenable and he sounds like he is being very controlling over the assets.

You can only get legal aid if there is a threat of harm to you or your children. If he's living in Australia then even the most underhand solicitor is not going to be able to wangle legal aid.

Emotional abuse is harm, and it is illegal.

@JadeGreen19

Emotional abuse is harm, and it is illegal.

It's also quite hard to prove and you're not thinking tactically. If this guy goes off to Australia again he's out of the way whilst the divorce can progress and clearly cannot be bothered with his own DCs. Is it really worth the OP's time and mental health to pursue an emotional abuse case against someone who won't be around unless they are provoked to be? I fear the consequences could be that such a claim will have insufficient evidence, no legal aid will be forthcoming and the ex will become even harder to deal with (and less likely to sod off to Australia).

Tactically I would say wait and see if he goes first. If he does, get progressing the divorce in his absence, use a solicitor and cover the fees from the asset split.

I still maintain that seeking a solicitor who accepts legal aid is worth it. Having read the first post again, after 10 years of it, and a hospitalisation with staff saying it is emotional abuse, I think there might be a case and enough evidence.

I recommend contacting Womens Aid, the Domestoc Violence helpline or other support agency to get a specialist domestic abuse support worker who can talk you through what to do.

It is 50:50 whether he goes to Australia. There are rights to protection via the police. Emotional abuse can turn into physical or other at the point of actual separation; this is the most risky time in terms of safety.

I not minded whether other posters agree or disagree with my input, whether they think it is not tactical or whatever. I am sticking to my gut feeling about what I can see from the impact on the OP's wellbeing and it is concerning.

Do use a solicitor. Ideally one who accepts legal aid. Judging by your post, you probably do have a legal case but it is a good idea to talk to a lawyer first. Keep a log of evidence in case.

Contact aid agencies like Women Aid. They can provide a trained trustworthy support worker who can give you advice on your options etc.

I think in that case run down house and difficulties with communication it is probably not in your interests to stay or sign a new fixed rate. It doesn’t sound like your DH has your best interests in mind with his decisions. Maybe it best to seek financial advice first but Do what you need to do.

OP I'm in a very similar situation to you. I don't have advice on what you asked but want to say something about the abuse aspect, as I've had to deal with this too.

There is an aspect of emotional abuse that is recognised in law. That basically comes with a threat (direct or indirect) of physical violence.

But there are other forms of emotional abuse that do not have a such a threat, and would not necessarily be considered a crime in the legal sense but are incredibly psychologically damaging.

What you've experienced from him is very definitely in the second category. It is real and the pain it has caused and is causing is also real. It's not ok. Sadly this may not be something that can be leveraged in a legal sense. It also doesn't mean the term "emotional abuse" is wrong, it just may not apply legally in your situation (lawyer can answer that).

I also tried mediation and it fell apart - because I fell apart. The mediation became a way for him to further abuse me while looking like a stand-up man just doing his best. I knew not to do mediation in cases of abuse, but I didn't realise that what I experience is abuse, exactly because of some of the replies you've had here.

Get a lawyer who takes you seriously and you feel comfortable with. They're not therapists but you not only need someone on your side, you need to feel this person is on your side.

Good luck. It's an awful place to be in. I hope you find a way out.

@Gingembre

OP I'm in a very similar situation to you. I don't have advice on what you asked but want to say something about the abuse aspect, as I've had to deal with this too.

There is an aspect of emotional abuse that is recognised in law. That basically comes with a threat (direct or indirect) of physical violence.

But there are other forms of emotional abuse that do not have a such a threat, and would not necessarily be considered a crime in the legal sense but are incredibly psychologically damaging.

What you've experienced from him is very definitely in the second category. It is real and the pain it has caused and is causing is also real. It's not ok. Sadly this may not be something that can be leveraged in a legal sense. It also doesn't mean the term "emotional abuse" is wrong, it just may not apply legally in your situation (lawyer can answer that).

I also tried mediation and it fell apart - because I fell apart. The mediation became a way for him to further abuse me while looking like a stand-up man just doing his best. I knew not to do mediation in cases of abuse, but I didn't realise that what I experience is abuse, exactly because of some of the replies you've had here.

Get a lawyer who takes you seriously and you feel comfortable with. They're not therapists but you not only need someone on your side, you need to feel this person is on your side.

Good luck. It's an awful place to be in. I hope you find a way out.

I completely agree. And he's even accusing you, classic tactics.

I know how this feels, it's so difficult. However, I kept my head down and got through, am very happy now, with my own house, pension share and I don't have to worry about my exh pissing money up the wall.

You can act for yourself in forcing the sale, all is not lost.

It’s a while since I posted and I am now about to take on a rental, leaving my STBXB in the family home as I can’t cope with it any more. The house is on the market but he is now threatening to take it off unless (jeopardising any universal credit I might receive for housing costs until the house sells) unless I agree to a buyout which would give me 60 per cent of my equity now and 40 per cent in five years time.
He is staggered that I’m not biting his hand off but I don’t trust him and fear I would never get the second payment. Only getting £60,000 now makes it impossible to consider buying when my one year rental is up.
Has anyone else agreed to a delayed buyout. He is saying I am playing financial suicide by making him rent too which I can see, but I don’t think a delayed payment works and I wondered what others thought.

Hi

I'm sorry to hear this is dragging on. My divorce has dragged too.

I was offered a 'buy out with money promised later', and rejected it.

I think you know he would not honour the rest.

He has got into your head. He is talking shite.

I don't blame you for moving out. How are your children; are they with you/between you/with him?

There are implications re. you moving out. Courts like to keep the status quo for children.

However, with proven emotional abuse, you can argue you needed to move.

If he is refusing mediation, that can get documented; you can't make him go.

You really do need a solicitor.

I wish you all the best. It's not easy. He sounds like a tyrant.
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