Would a judge be likely to sign this off? Consent order.

[HulaChick]

Hi, I was just wondering how likely you think it would be for a judge to sign this off:
Me, 51, Dh 57
2x teenagers, one nearly 18
House (no mortgage) £500,000
DH's pension value approx £625,000
My pension value £18,000 (have been SAHM)
DH's net monthly pay approx £4,000
My net monthly pay approx £1,400
No debts

Proposal is that DH keeps the house and buys me out through a combination of remortgaging and savings to give me 60% of value of house.
This would comprise mortgage of £212,000, and give me £88,000 of his savings.
Pension - had an actuary look at this and by ring fencing what he put in before we got together, would give me 22.2% of it (as, an equaliser value on retirement which works out at about £18.400 a year for me - I don't really understand pensions)

I am in process of buying house for which, obviously, I need the money but DH is refusing to sign the mortgage he's taking out on house in order to buy me out & allow me to get my new house, until we've had sign off from the court. So, I just wondered how likely it would be to be approved?
Married for 13 years, together for 22 years.
Thank you for reading and for any opinions!

Sorry, need to add that I would also keep my savings of approx £34,000. Also, DH been advised by his solicitor not to sign until order approved. DH also will have savings left - not sure how much but probably about £20,000.

I don 't understand the pension figures, if you are recieving 22% of his pension pot is £137,500, plus your £18k is total £155,500.
That will only service a £18,400 pension for 8 1/2 years.

Also, after a long marriage (the time together before marriage will count) the aprox £108k your husband has in savings is a joint asset, as is your savings.

Together you have £142k savings.
House worth £500k.

50% of that is £321,000 each

Your husbands proposal is £334k to you which is about 52% of joint assets.

Then look at pensions, total pension pots £643k, and he is proposing you have £155,00 and he has £488,000?

Why should he get 48% of assets and over 75% of pension?

Have you got your own lawyer? You really need legal advice, this is a terrible deal for you, I'm not surprised he's trying to bully you into signing quickly.

I would be surprised if this would get through.

Yours would be considered a long marriage (cohabitation part also counts), and given your ages (and from my own divorce experience at similar age) I think a judge would want to see more equality of income on retirement.

I am not sure it's possible for either of you to ring fence what you brought in, it's a long marriage and it would probably be considered a needs basis so everything would be in the pot.

My ex also wanted to ring fence his pension from prior to marriage. It didn't work.

Honestly please get legal advice, I think this is not a good deal for you.

Have you taken legal advice on this?

Oh my goodness, I was really hoping the replies would be that you thought it would get signed off! Yes, I'm basically getting about 52% of the assets and very small amount of pension but I was willing to accept that as I'm desperate to get my new house which us much smaller and will be cheaper to run, plus my children are desperate for me to get it as they love it so much and it would just work out in so many ways for us all and provides a great solution.
My husband thinks I'm coming out of this very well and that he's the one being hard done by as he will be taking all the risk on taking out a mortgage on family house in order for me to get new one as interest rates could go up and he'll be paying interest. He also says he might not be able to continue to work at the level at which he currently does and that too is a risk.

We have both got solicitors and this is his solicitor's latest suggestion to bring us to a final agreement. My solicitor was on holiday but back now and I'm hoping to speak to him tomorrow. However, I am willing to accept as I can't lose my new house! I would be able to invest some of my savings and now I am working again, I'm hoping to be able to build up my own pension again. He says by my divorcing him I'm stealing his retirement as he'll now have to work into his 70's in order to pay off the mortgage. I actually really want this to be signed off. Also, why would his solicitor propose something that could be refused by a judge? As it's me who asked for the divorce, he is understandably very resentful and bitter about things.
I just so desperately want to get my new house and it all relies on judge approving it and then my husband signing mortgage to release the funds! I'm not trying to 'fleece' him as he likes to say but just to move on and start afresh.
Thank you for your replies

Thing is, you are not getting 52% of the assets. His pension is one of the assets.
Honestly, it doesn't look a good deal.

That doesn't sound like a good deal for you OP. I'm not a legal professional, but I was in a similar situation with my exH a few years ago, and my solicitor said she didn't think a judge would sign off on it.

You would be getting 32.8% of the total assets, and walking away with greatly reduced earnings potential. (currently 25.9% of your joint income) You might be able to afford your new smaller house, but if anything happens and you can't work, your £34k savings won't last all that long. You also won't be able to support your DC through uni if they choose to go, and you'd have no way of guaranteeing your H would. You also have no way to guarantee that the capital you've created with your H would eventually be inherited by your DC. He might remarry and leave it all to his new wife.

Do you have a solicitor? If so, what do they say about this deal?

Sorry, missed that you had already said you have a solicitor and will be speaking to him today.

DH accepted a deal pretty much like this to get the divorce done. It’s all very well saying hang on for more but it was destroying his mental health and he couldn’t face a court battle nor could he afford one.

Sorry forgot to say yes the judge signed it off. It was a similarly inequitable split (his ex is a very high earner, he is a teacher) in his Ex W favour. The judge raised a query which was answered by DH’s solicitor, then signed it off.

What kind of child maintenance has been agreed or will there be 50:50 residence?

Thsbk you all again for taking the time to reply. Sorry but I can't remember how to reply individually!
The children would be pretty much equal time between us. I would actually have, after my new house been bought, not only my £33,000 savings but also the rest of my share of the house (paid out of DH's savings) of £65,000 so I would actually have nearly £100,000 cash to invest, save & live on. I don't want all that I may or may not be entitled to but just enough to get my house and to live off until I retire and get a share (albeit quite small) of his pension.
He would definitely make provision for the DC to inherit, so got no issues there.
But, why would a solicitor propose something that could be turned down by a judge? How much weight is the supporting information form given? I consent to this proposal and will sign a pension waiver (to the full amount I'm entitled to) so just want the judge to see I'm sound of mind & not being coerced into this. DH does have a massive issue over money and sees it as amoral that I could be entitled to so much.
Surely, there's also no reason why he can't sign the mortgage and allow me to buy my house & move on as that is one part of all this we ould actually get sorted! He's so ultra cautious with money and would be looking at the risk he's taking on with a mortgage if other stuff not agreed but I can't see that a judge would award me any less than 50% of the value of our family house which is still more than the value of my new one!! I just want to move on and can't face living in limbo any longer!

Oh and no maintenance

50/50 across all assets, including pension would be a sub par deal for you, in order to hustle things along.

This deal is abhorrent for you.

Do you have your own solicitor?

Ensure that decree absoute isn't actioned until any pension sharing is formalised in a consent order as the divorce being complete can have implications for this, e.g. should he die before matters are concluded.

www.harrowells.co.uk/site/blog/divorce-blog/decree-absolutes-and-pension-sharing-orders

Be very careful about what you're agreeing to - don't be one of the legion of elderly divorced women worrying about how they'll afford heat this winter, all because they took a terrible deal to make the pain end.

"DH does have a massive issue over money and sees it as amoral that I could be entitled to so much."

That's the kind of thing someone says when they know they are shaky ground, legally. Trying to guilt-trip you into giving up things you are, legally, entitled to.

I get it about wanting to get the house, I really do. But you need to look at the longer term, too. How long might you live in retirement? Maybe 30+ years? That's a long time to spend living in poverty.

"DH does have a massive issue over money and sees it as amoral that I could be entitled to so much."

He thinks you're coming out of it well, but his thinking is very biased. You're not coming out of it well with that deal.

You're entitled because it's a long marriage and because you've both put into this. Presumably your career took second place because you were providing child care.

Also, whatever he says he's going to do in his Will, he can re-do at any time, and all plans could be upset by him remarrying anyway. So don't rely on his Will providing for your children.

Is this solicitor proposing this? There job is to look after your husband's interest not yours.
They are probably not expecting you to accept this offer They are probably expecting this 75 % to exh to be an opening offer with your solicitor replying with an offer favouring you 75 % to you like his, and further negotiations coming up with something more 50 50.
Please tell us you do have your own solicitor.

@Maxiedog123

Is this solicitor proposing this? There job is to look after your husband's interest not yours. They are probably not expecting you to accept this offer They are probably expecting this 75 % to exh to be an opening offer with your solicitor replying with an offer favouring you 75 % to you like his, and further negotiations coming up with something more 50 50. Please tell us you do have your own solicitor.

This. My ex's solicitor also proposed a deal which was a long way from what we agreed at Court after guidance from the judge.

Your husband, if a true misogynist, may well believe this a fair offer. He is wrong, and his Solicitor would know better but is probably just writing what the client, your ex, wants.

Hi, thanks for the replies.
Yes, I do have my own solicitor and am hoping to speak to him today. Yes, this is DH's solicitor's idea and it's about the 4th proposal between us that's gone back & forth. DH told me this one was 'non-negotiable' and because of the way he is about money, I know he means that. What I can't understand though is why his solicitor would propose something like this if it's unlikely to be approved?
Yes, I understand DH has the risk of a mortgage and inflation & interest rates increasing. I would gave £100,000 in cash capital which I think is good and, also, I can hopefully build up a bit more if my own pension between now & retiring. DH is already in his late 50's and the mortgage repayments would continue into his 70's so he will have to keep working and may well end up not being able to continue in his job as it's very high pressured.
I just want him to sign the mortgage deed so I can buy my house as I can't see that aspect t of the arrangement changing no matter what the judge might propose. If he doesn't, I'd lose the house, he may not get such a good mortgage offer again and I might be priced out of the market with what I'm entitled to! I'm so sick of living in limbo, I can't live a proper life - we're still in the same house a lot of the time, apart from when I stay at my Mum's.

He might say it's non-negotiable. But if he's being unfair and unreaslitic then he will probably have to negotiate!

Mine also was adamant on what he was offering, but the judge said different.

See what your solicitor says, good luck.

I'm not sure that him telling a judge that it's not negotiable is going to work.....

Honestly if he is an arse about money take it - you could spent 100K in court fees and solicitors bills BUT it is not equitable as all savings, pensions and anything else material like cars are also taken into account.

A better solution would be house to you till youngest is out of education (ie 21 or more) and you get (minimum) 50 percent of everything else and also csa monies for youngest

I really don’t see this getting signed off!
Do you have any other assists that you can exaggerate the value of if you really want this (Bad for you) deal?
Say you had a designer dog that was worth £20,000 or koi fish or antiques? 😂😂😂

Haha,no, no more assets sadly!!

Originally, the idea was for me to stay in fmh and him to move out and pay me a hefty sum if maintenance until my retirement age but he keep a charge of 40% in the house. He was going through the process of buying a house but backed out just before contracts exchanged (he felt survey had turned up too many issues but, in my mind, they were all easily fixable). We had a consent order drawn up to this effect and he was going to move out and rent. Then.... he had a change of mind and said he wasn't prepared to move out, he wanted to leave his job and he wasn't going to agree. So, I said,, well one of us needs to and that's when I found the house I'm wanting to buy and he agreed it looked good and a good solution. Our next proposal was that asset & pension share would be as already described but I'd get global maintenance order of £350 per month until I reached retirement age. He sent back via his solicitor that he would pay me 2 years maintenance as a lump sum. I sent back that I would like 5 years as a lump sum. Now, we have this latest proposal.
I've spoken to my solicitor and although he says this massively favours my DH, it wouldn't be necessarily be thrown out.

I'm just so fed up and pissed off as I just want it all done. He is extremely focused on the fact that I came into our relationship with nothing, financially, whereas he brought a lot in. He feels I'll be leaving the marriage miles better off than I was when we met, whereas he'll be leaving worse off. It's exhausting trying to argue as he is so adamant that what he's offering me is .ore than fair!! I can't believe his solicitor hasn't told him he's actually the one getting the good deal here!!

His solicitor may well have told him he's the one getting the good deal, but he won't tell you that.

I know you want to draw a line under this now, but picture yourself 10 or 20 years from now, would you be pleased you'd taken this offer?

He's ignoring the fact that with long marriage like this all assets are in the pot. I bought all the equity iand savings into our marriage, and ended up having to give almost half to my OH but that's the way it is. (he still wanted to keep all of his pension, but didn't get to).

Your OH can bluff and bluster all he likes, but he's not being realistic.