Advice- where do you start?

[Tempnamelady]

Left DH in Feb, I’ve been renting ever since plus paying my way at home. I’m not going back , we discussed and tried against my will but it’s not going to work. He was very EA and selfish/manipulative and I put it with it for 23 years before having an affair, I’m not proud of that but there you go.
He’s made it clear that as far as he’s concerned I get half the house and that’s it. He has a police pension , and all the savings we have are from his retirement lump sum. But I’ve always earned more, and paid for most things in the home and for our son. I earn more by some way now. House is nearly paid for but his argument is that he wants to stay where we lived ( house prices are crazy ) whereas I’m willing to move. No dependent children as son is 23 and lives away from home.
I can see this getting nasty , I’m emotionally shattered by everything that’s happened this year. He even said he would come after half my future earnings as he ‘helped me with my career’ which is utterly laughable.
I don’t want to spend fortunes on legal Fees, I’m pretty emotionally fragile which I am getting some help with. Any help with next steps would be welcome , I’m currently spending 2.5 k a month on mortgage, rent and bills and enough is enough.

I think your next step is to proceed with the divorce - you say you can see this getting nasty but it already is nasty isn't it?

He doesn't get to tell you how the assets will be split either you agree it between you or the judge decides. The judge will be fair.

As above - it's not his decision! If you can't agree (and you really need to get legal advice) then the Court will tell you what is fair.

If you're worried about legal fees, it is perfectly possible to act for yourself whilst using a solicitor as and when. I did it this way, and my costs are about a quarter of my STBEX's. We are just at the final stage. I used a Direct Access Barrister for the hearings as I knew I'd find just too triggering to do the speaking myself. It was worth it.

I got a lot of information and advice from Wikivorce and from here, and just used a solictior when I wanted confirmation of my position or advice on next steps - it was a "pay as you go" basis.

Good luck x

Leave it in the hands of a solicitor, and go minimal contact.
He’s obviously worked out what it’s actually going to cost him.
Do not agree to anything unless your solicitor has ok’d it.

And I don’t see why your paying half the bills.
I’d only expect you to pay half the house insurance and mortgage,

@GoodnightGrandma I know. @comfortablyfrumpy I would rather avoid courts given there’s no kids involved . I’d it possible to get a steer in writing about what a fair settlement would be from a solicitor and then use that as the basis do you think? I feel like I’m on the back foot as he’s on the house and I’m not .

In the house I meant

Proceed with the divorce. Get information and advice as well in case, it is a good idea. Prayers and hugs

@languagelover96 thanks so much means a lot xx

@GoodnightGrandma

And I don’t see why your paying half the bills. I’d only expect you to pay half the house insurance and mortgage,

If you're not living in the house, then your STBEx should pay the entire mortgage - as a form of rent. My solicitor told my ex this. Obviously, if he's being an arse and dicking around with money, you might want to make sure it's paid. He pays the bills - he lives there!

My ex told me he'd give me 'half the equity' and plucked a figure from the air that was about £100,000 less than a half (twat). Went to court and got considerably more.

I know it's hard, but take advice, and don't discuss it with him. Head down, keep going. divorce is like having dental treatment on a roller coaster, it's horribly stressful.

comfortablyfrumpy could I ask you a couple of questions?
Firstly, I've filed the petition but stopped using the solicitor I initially instructed because she was just too damn expensive. In one month, my fees came to a whopping £4300.
So I've got the filed petition... and no solicitor. Were the solicitors you used while self-repping ones you found on Wikivorce? What kind of service did they offer? I guess I'm wondering, how did you self-rep and actually go about getting the advice you needed? Did you stick with one particular solicitor or just contact solicitors via Wikivorce as needed?

I have the very first letter just received from my STBX's solicitor. I just want advice on how to respond. I don't want to fall down the black hole of 'tit for tat' and being siphoned every time I write a letter... or even breathe for that matter, which is what happened before. Can I just ask a solicitor via Wikivorce for advice as each letter comes in? STBX's solicitor seems keen to want to communicate witih my solicitor rather than me. But I am terrified of the expense. It's just something I cannot afford... a £30-40k divorce, which is what I was looking at.

Hi @TheVanguardSix

£4300 cripes!!!!!! I didn't spend anywhere near that on solicitors fees for the whole divorce and the financial application.

I'll PM you the for the solicitors I used. I didn't find them through Wikivorce, I'd met one of the partners before. They do pay as you go and full service - so I just emailed or arranged a telephone meeting whenever I needed to get more advice and I got billed according to the time I'd used. It was really straightforward. A lot of the stuff involved is admin work really, and it makes sense to do that yourself and get the advice on what to do, when you need it.

I also used Wikivorce for general queries - and here of course.
I just told STBEX's solicitors that I was self-repping and they should communicate direct with me.

It saved me a bloody fortune and it has been empowering.
Good luck x

@comfortablyfrumpy I’d appreciate the solicitor details if you don’t mind please for when the time comes.

One thing I want to ask, if we have no dependent children do future earnings get taken into account ? I earn double my husband , that said he takes a lot of time off unpaid and works short days. Well he can afford to whilst I’m footing most of the bills.

[quote Tempnamelady]@comfortablyfrumpy I’d appreciate the solicitor details if you don’t mind please for when the time comes.

One thing I want to ask, if we have no dependent children do future earnings get taken into account ? I earn double my husband , that said he takes a lot of time off unpaid and works short days. Well he can afford to whilst I’m footing most of the bills.[/quote]
Hi @Tempnamelady I'll pm you details.

I'm not sure about earning capacity - it will impact your respective mortgage capability (if mortgages are needed to rehouse you both). You'd both be expected to maximise your earning potential though so he might need to get a shift on

Yours is a long marriage, and if it's on a "needs" basis, then potentially everything is the pot. So that would include pensions.... and I'm guessing that his is a good one?

In your shoes I think initially I'd get some advice on where you stand, and you can then work out what you want to do.

Good luck, it's not an easy process. But honestly the sense of freedom makes it worthwhile.

His is £££ mine less so , I know about pensions as it’s what I do. When I mentioned about pension valuations and his lump sum he went nuts and starting screaming about coming after half my future earnings. I would rather he didn’t know my salary, I was promoted earlier this year. I have always used my money to provide for the family , he prioritised himself , so I don’t think it’s fair that he should benefit from the hard graft I’ve put in to progress my career. He is a bully and I’ve always backed down , but I can’t afford to do it now.

Thanks for sending the details xxx just feel so shit about life atm.

Well, he's going to be in for a surprise. Because with that length of marriage, pensions are going to be in the equation. Mine also protested and wouldn't bring pension values to mediation as he said they weren't to be considered... so I issued Form A and got the ball rolling.

Your STBEX will be expected to maximise his earnings :) I can't see how he can go after half your future earnings!

All I can say is take it all one step at a time. It's not easy, I won't lie. But you will get there xx

Hi op..I think you need to both sit down and look at how much it will cost you both in solicitors fees if he continues to shout an scream at you. Without kids it is absolutely straight forward. 50% of assets each. Download form D81 and look at it together. His pension is counted, your salary is counted as is now. The formula is in the form.
If you can both accept you will BOTH come out worse off, and no winners then you can move forwards working it out practically together and trying to leave the anger, recriminations and shouting and panic out of it- it does take time to adjust to this fact, but you need to talk and talk more
My divorce cost £550 for court. Our COMBINED legal costs were less than £2000 as I did everything on line, and we then used my solicitor to write up our drafted consent order. He just had a solicitor go over it with him to ensure he was understanding the process and what he was signing - this was his choice
I divorced on grounds of unreasonable behaviour including abusive behaviour. It was easy to be calm, to compromise when I felt I had financially contributed more to the marriage ( he hadn’t worked in last 12 years of our 30 year marriage for instance). Whole thing was done and dusted to decree final in 8 weeks . But it needs you both to try to step ahead of your feelings and deal with the practice first.
Educate yourselves about how the court would decide financial split if you don’t agree- that way you know what compromises you will both have to make. Then start and finish that without the court so you save what money you have,
Good luck

That should read it was Not easy to be calm when I felt I had contributed more 🤦‍♀️

Oh, and you WILL HAVE TO declare your earnings, bonuses and everything else you both have- you not being keen is not a cop out I’m afraid,. The D81 is required even with a consent order

@Warblerinwinter thanks I will read and digest but when you say my salary is counted what does that mean please ? I get less because I will earn more in future ? My husband has minimised earnings this year by not turning into work for days weeks at a time and when he does working only a 60-70 per cent week doesn’t get paid when he doesn’t turn in , knowing I’ve still been tipping up the joint account contribution. I would be beyond pissed off if he got more money based on me pulling my tripe out doing 60 hours a week to get this job plus being the person who contributed the most throughout the marriage .

[quote Tempnamelady]@Warblerinwinter thanks I will read and digest but when you say my salary is counted what does that mean please ? I get less because I will earn more in future ? My husband has minimised earnings this year by not turning into work for days weeks at a time and when he does working only a 60-70 per cent week doesn’t get paid when he doesn’t turn in , knowing I’ve still been tipping up the joint account contribution. I would be beyond pissed off if he got more money based on me pulling my tripe out doing 60 hours a week to get this job plus being the person who contributed the most throughout the marriage .[/quote]
Hi, first of all I know it probably makes you feel scared, a little sick etc. You will have to take time to get your head around it.
The D81 takes you through the calculation
1st it asks you both about property- so if you have assets in a house owned jointly you each declare 50% of that. If one of you won it that person declares 100%. If you don’t know value get 3 estate agents round
You then list All savings, investments etc- you need to declare everything, and you need to ensure you have searched everything to get all his savings and assets. This includes any amount in your current accounts, personal accounts etc. If you have a joint accounts , savings etc you put down 50% each
You then put down any liabilities- debts, credit cards- again where joint split in half
Then do the sum of what your net assets are each …that’s what “cash” you could realise each.

You then list all pensions except state pensions. You will either need to know the transfer value, or in the case of police or other final benefit pensions you have to ask for a valuation for a pension order. A pension order is a directive to the company or organisation to split the pension for divorce purposes. It can take a lot of time, and there’s a potential charge I think for getting this information.
Finally you both put down earnings you have currently. Not future earnings. The court cannot agree to a decision made on future earnings without a very strong argument. Essentially future potential earnings are dependant on what May or may not happen in the future. You could for instance become ill and end up not working at all. It only really can be generally considered if future earnings are guarenteed form say trusts or previous spousal orders or becuase you are already receiving pensions. Your current earnings are a indication of your future earnings. Now if your husband is choosing not to work full time/max his potential earnings you can put that into the comments box on the next section as a reason why you aren’t splitting 50%, but in practice you should use this as a lever edge with him potentially as to why you won’t go after so much of his pension for instance.
You then total up both your combined “wealth” and split 50:50 as your starting point. Then you think about what assets/debts you transfer between you to achieve that. So, if you “need “ some of his pension it will be way more cost effect on defined benefit schemes for him to transfer some of his other assets to you…BUT you would need to invest those for a pension for yourself .
Once you write it down on D81 it becomes a bit more stark and obvious what a court will do -
With a consent order you can agree variation on the 50:50 split (or you can wrangle this during mediation paying someone else to do it with some of those assets), however the court will still check that you have something that agrees with its (I think) 7 principles . I’ll send a seperate link to those in a few mins when I find it. Those principles are the underlying factors of “fairness” the court would take into account if you could not get agreement through a consent order. So, that is really what you have to understand in setting out your consent order .
Hope that makes sense,
I panicked at first as I had higher salary and pension. But we did work through it and once we engaged our heads as opposed to just emotions we both came out pretty ok.

Here is mediates version of how the court would decide
www.mediateuk.co.uk/the-ultimate-guide-to-financial-settlement-on-divorce/

One thing I forgot…there needs to be a very good reason not to have a clean break. The court won’t make provisions to pay spousal maintenance unless there is a very very good reason.
You’ve no dependent children so take it as you need to work on clean break principles

Link to D81 form
www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-d81-statement-of-information-for-a-consent-order-in-relation-to-a-financial-remedy

Thanks , will work through all of this . Phew....

Where do I start -
Recently superstar from my husband of 21 years - parenting issues coming between me and my girls was the final straw.
I believe he’s narcissistic but never diagnosed. He has a good side and toxic side which came to the surface more and more as the kids got older. I always felt piggy in the middle keeping the peace between them and protecting the girls from his toxic side so they didn’t have to witness it hence I took the grief from him instead- weekly silent treatment, nasty comments and making me feel pathetic and unworthy. Was always too scared to address the issues as he never listened and twisted it back onto me.
After leaving him once last year, for a week after a toxic episode including the girls, he talked me into going back. It was good at 1st but then rapidly went back to how it was before and I lived with regret but pushed it to one side blaming myself for feeling like this.
The relationship became one sided in my eyes and I felt increasingly lonely and sad.
It all irrupted again 6 months ago and something in me snapped - possibly the toxic name calling on the phone at 6am going to work - and I told him I wanted to sell the house and get out. He agreed and the silent treatment and removal from everyday family chores disappeared for 3 weeks.
The house sold and he was still ignoring me but signed all the papers.
I found somewhere for me and the girls - who refused to stay with him- but he cancelled the sale of our house behind my back so it all fell through.
He refused to move out and blamed everything on me so basically we were trapped. Everyday living was effecting the girls and a rollercoaster of moods from him followed- one minute regretful and the next shouting insults at us.
He agreed to move out until the girls finished important exams which I respected but changed his mind with 48hrs.
Eventually found a rented home for me and girls and he was amicable when I told him but threw into a rage after the reality set in.
So moved out and he wouldn’t have any contact with me and locked us all out of the family home by leaving the key in the door and exiting out of a door he knew none of us had a key for.
He’s bombarding me with menopausal articles saying this is what’s happening to me and basically my fault for how things have finished. I have no symptoms of menopause but it’s a way of getting in my head and twisting it onto me - I am racked with guilt, sadness, anxiety, and scared for the future but also feel free.
He’s refusing to help financially with the girls so I have no option but to file for divorce so it’s a legal matter and he can’t influence or manipulate me further …
Feel so up and down with my emotions- any advice or support would be appreciated ☺️