Anxious daughter.... doesn't want to sleep at exh

[isitbedtimeplease]

Hi all
My daughter, 11, is struggling with anxiety at the moment and one of her triggers is leaving me at bedtime. At home we have worked hard to create calm bedtimes and she now settles to sleep in her room alone.
Eow she goes to her dads, and struggles at bedtime. She ends up calling me below the covers for me to calm her and help her settle.
She also sends me messages through the day telling me her heart hurts. Exh isn't on same page as me with this and is hard to talk rationally with.
Any Advice would be welcomed!

What is causing her anxiety ?

Being away from me seems the main trigger but not sure of root cause

What does her dad say when you talk to him about it? Can you encourage her to talk to him about how she’s feeling?

If you can afford it, find a specialist counsellor who can help your daughter and both her parents manage her anxiety.

I am not sure I would be on the same page as you, either.

It is not normal for an 11 year old to have separation anxiety from a parent. She should be looking to explore the World and widen her horizons. You need to work out the reason for it? Absent special needs, or another reason that you have not disclosed, she is old enough to realise that she will return to you at the end of the weekend.

Don’t normalise this and create special routines to get around it. She just had to learn to go to bed and self-settle. If this is not possible, you should seek professional help, maybe CBT.

I suggest you agree with your ex that she should not have her phone in bed at his. Phones are never ever a solution to anxiety; in fact they exacerbate it (and it sounds like it is also making you more anxious).

@TheReluctantPhoenix that's not correct. Many children of divorce and two homes struggle with anxiety for that exact reason.

All children are different. The OP has shown she is trying to help her daughter, they have a routine that works. If her ex isn't part of that routine (and it seems that's by his choice) it won't get better at his house.

Your expecting an anxious child to act like a rational adult. It doesn't work like that and both parents need to be involved in the solution.

And CBT I'd based around coping mechanisms, routines to help the anxiety. Exactly what the OP is doing.

Is*

OP. I really can relate. And my dd is quite a few years older than your dd. The minute she got to her dad she would be constantly messaging me. Worried about me, what was I doing, had I eaten etc etc. She hated the fact I was alone.

Fast forward some years she has now been diagnosed with ptsd, anxiety and depression. And she has separation anxiety and she is now 18. So I don't agree at all with a previous poster saying your dd is too old for that to be a factor.
You don't say how long you've been divorced or if your ex is living with someone else, with other children. This was a major issue for my dd, but it didn't surface straight away.

I think you are doing all the right things by trying to keep home as calm as possible for her, but then it's all out of your control once she has gone to her dad. It would take my dd about 3 days to 'come around' again after having gone there for a weekend.

In her words, it's like having to live two different lives. And she needed time to adjust back to which ever one.

I had to get professional help for my dd as it spiralled very badly. I would have loved to have had a sit down chat with my ex and explain how it affected our dd, but unfortunately it was not an amicable split and he would go against anything I said just to spite me. But if you are able, I would suggest sitting down with him and try to be in the same page for your dd.

And possibly consider her seeing someone. Sometimes we think our DC are doing ok with their parents splitting, but quite often they hide it to not upset either parent.

It is not unusual for a child of 11 to find the transitions between homes incredibly hard. Bedtime is a vulnerable time therefore it's unsurprising the anxiety is manifesting around then. My DD is a few years older than yours and while her Father and I have been separated since she was little she still struggles at her Fathers particularly at bedtime ( I get the calls / messages). Her Father isn't capable of supporting her emotionally and she doesn't feel secure with him. It's not that he doesn't ''care'' for her - she's fed, clothed and in a safe place - it's that she doesn't feel emotionally secure. Like you I could not speak to my ex, or at least any attempt to do so was met with extremely unhelpful reactions.

If her Father isn't able to meet her needs, bottom line you have to help her learn to meet them herself. My advice is to arrange for some counselling and when she contacts you while at her Dads to offer encouragement and reassurance that she is OK, and she will be fine etc. Keep the calls to a min. and the messages. I have a few select things I always say: i.e. read for 10 mins and then go to sleep. Set the boundaries so she can work within them. Encourage discussions around how she is feeling outside of contact times so there's a forum for any feelings she has to be expressed. If she can be helped to find healthy ways to express her emotions you may find bedtime anxiety naturally resolves. Behaviors are almost always a manifestation of unmet / unexpressed needs.. often children even of this age struggle to express how they feel particularly around the topic of life in 2 homes.

We are in the same boat here. Two homes, very anxious 11 year old. Always manifests at bedtime particularly when at her father's. The emotional support and empathy is lacking there and she routinely calls me and is distressed and upset. Nearly two years on. Have no advice but completely feel your pain and know exactly what you are talking about @isitbedtimeplease

What do you all mean the emotional support is not there?
What is the matter with these “fathers”?

If a child is this anxious and upset at bedtime at either parents house than this needs to be carefully managed by both parents together or it will only get worse. Overcompensating for absent paternal emotional support will make their lack of it even more difficult to deal with then the child is there!

@DebbieHarrysCheekbones and if the other parents refuses?

[quote Chucklecheeks01]@DebbieHarrysCheekbones and if the other parents refuses?[/quote]
Do you really need a stranger to tell you?
You’re a parent, your kid is in a state and behaving this way and their father is not concerned or working with you?
That’s not good enough

I couldn’t stand by and let a child be this unhappy and anxious
So why can any of you?

It's all very well saying you wouldn't stand by and let a child be this unhappy... no one disagrees it's not good and will only get worse but what exactly would you do when...

-Father won't discuss or even acknowledge there's a problem
-Your child is obligated to sleep over at their Fathers
-If you don't insist the child does you're either breaking a court order or risking one being put in place or worse

Having lived this for years with numerous professional interventions owing to the impact I can tell you there is no way to compel a Father to parent, co-parent or even care in these circumstances. I do however agree it only gets worse, and it's the child that suffers. It's horrific to watch and be powerless to do anything.

@TheReluctantPhoenix

I am not sure I would be on the same page as you, either.

It is not normal for an 11 year old to have separation anxiety from a parent. She should be looking to explore the World and widen her horizons. You need to work out the reason for it? Absent special needs, or another reason that you have not disclosed, she is old enough to realise that she will return to you at the end of the weekend.

Don’t normalise this and create special routines to get around it. She just had to learn to go to bed and self-settle. If this is not possible, you should seek professional help, maybe CBT.

I suggest you agree with your ex that she should not have her phone in bed at his. Phones are never ever a solution to anxiety; in fact they exacerbate it (and it sounds like it is also making you more anxious).

@TheReluctantPhoenix this is a bit harsh! I had very bad separation anxiety as an 11 year old, I remember not even wanting to stay with my (beloved) grandparents (who I saw all of the time). Within three years it had totally disappeared and I was in Paris on a school residential for a fortnight! I certainly didn’t have undiagnosed special needs and besides having an anxiety disorder (which I’ve had all of my life and still do) there was nothing else wrong. Therapy and medication have helped my anxiety a lot in adulthood.

@isitbedtimeplease my parents lived together, so mine- and it was pretty bad, I would get very anxious- wasn’t to do with anything other than that I was very attached to my mum and my house. My advice would be to keep reassuring her and maybe she could do with some help, CBT has helped my anxiety a lot. I’m sorry your ex isn’t very helpful, him being supportive would help. But there’s every chance that this is a phase and in a few years she will be in a Parisian dorm room not giving you a second thought.

It’s your GP and your ex needed here. Get her medically diagnosed and on the very long waiting lists for counselling. Explain the anxiety.

Email your ex - detail the situation matter of factly eg she phone and texted me x times and is getting anxious - how can we support the transition eg can she come for an afternoon and I pick her up at 7 pm etc

Totally agree with what @Pinkyxx and others have said on this thread.
OP, hand hold, sending solidarity. It’s horrible when you know your DD is anxious and upset, and not have your ex on side to deal with it.

I’m in a similar position - DD has been 50/50 since she was 2, when exH and I split up, and I stupidly believed that she’d be ok with this, as would never know anything different.
From the age of 6, she’s wanted to live with me (wanting EOW at her dad’s).
EXH refused to make any changes at all, and poor DD had anxiety, developed a twitch/tic, slept badly, cried all time time, told teachers she wanted to be with me more (school had to put in place a special routine to help her cope), child psychologist etc.
ExH simply refused to believe that she was so upset, telling me time and again that she was only upset on the day she went back there.
The threat of going to mediation and court were the only things that eventually made him back down to 60/40.

Fast forward another 4 years, DD is now 10, and the narrative has never changed.
She doesn’t feel emotionally secure at her dad’s, constantly asks for things to change so she can be with me more, and is now displaying the same anxieties as before.
She tells me she’s too scared of her dad to tell him how she feels, and cries herself to sleep whilst at his house.
He refuses to believe that anything is wrong.

I totally understand the feeling of powerlessness in trying to co-parent with this type of man.

@tigerbear this is what is happening here. Nervous twitch/tic that comes and goes. It's awful to watch and I don't know what to do. She's been seeing a therapist (osteopath) which seems to help. She won't do counselling. I don't think the 50/50 parenting helps but she says she doesn't want to live with just one of us. Basically she just wants to be a family again. She has a broken heart.

A few people on here who could be deemed aggressive. Perhaps you should reread your messages before you post?

@Pinkyxx

It's all very well saying you wouldn't stand by and let a child be this unhappy... no one disagrees it's not good and will only get worse but what exactly would you do when...

-Father won't discuss or even acknowledge there's a problem
-Your child is obligated to sleep over at their Fathers
-If you don't insist the child does you're either breaking a court order or risking one being put in place or worse

Having lived this for years with numerous professional interventions owing to the impact I can tell you there is no way to compel a Father to parent, co-parent or even care in these circumstances. I do however agree it only gets worse, and it's the child that suffers. It's horrific to watch and be powerless to do anything.

If a parent is not capable of emotionally investing in and caring about how they affect their child that is abuse. Emotional abuse. By that now mean if when their child is with them they are so anxious they cry themselves to sleep, develop mental health problems and are generally unhappy. That cannot be left to fester. It could have simply tragic consequences.

@tigerbear

Totally agree with what *@Pinkyxx* and others have said on this thread. OP, hand hold, sending solidarity. It’s horrible when you know your DD is anxious and upset, and not have your ex on side to deal with it.

I’m in a similar position - DD has been 50/50 since she was 2, when exH and I split up, and I stupidly believed that she’d be ok with this, as would never know anything different.
From the age of 6, she’s wanted to live with me (wanting EOW at her dad’s).
EXH refused to make any changes at all, and poor DD had anxiety, developed a twitch/tic, slept badly, cried all time time, told teachers she wanted to be with me more (school had to put in place a special routine to help her cope), child psychologist etc.
ExH simply refused to believe that she was so upset, telling me time and again that she was only upset on the day she went back there.
The threat of going to mediation and court were the only things that eventually made him back down to 60/40.

Fast forward another 4 years, DD is now 10, and the narrative has never changed.
She doesn’t feel emotionally secure at her dad’s, constantly asks for things to change so she can be with me more, and is now displaying the same anxieties as before.
She tells me she’s too scared of her dad to tell him how she feels, and cries herself to sleep whilst at his house.
He refuses to believe that anything is wrong.

I totally understand the feeling of powerlessness in trying to co-parent with this type of man.

At age 10 she is able to articulate these worries. Do you have a CAO?

This isn’t con parenting.
Co parenting requires emotional maturity affinity in your approaches to parenting snd sharing the full responsibility of parenting. A child doesn’t cry herself to sleep at the house of a true co parent

OP I think you’re doing a lot right here. You’re available to her for emotional support in a way that she can access.

It’s important with childhood anxiety to support the child in finding ways to cope, and to give them a safe place to express themselves. But we need to avoid letting anxiety be the excuse not to try. Keep giving her the message that she can do it, she can do hard things, you believe in her, etc.

Can she identify other things that help her feel calm or give comfort? This will help empower her and give her a small degree of control.

If she’s a reader you might give her a new book when she’s going to her dads for instance. It would be great if there was a particular interest or activity that her dad could support. Sometimes it’s easier to try and get your dc interested in dad’s passion than vice versa. Anything that will get them talking will likely help.

It’s really really shit that dc gave to go through this.

Have you talked to any professionals? My DD is suffers with anxiety - it turns out that some of the things I was doing to help her were actually not helpful, because they worked in the short term but ultimately were making her more dependent on me. Similarly, it was damaging her connection with my (loving though not super attentive) ex.

It sounds like you might be doing something similar. Her calling you constantly sounds less like reassurance, and more like codependence. Her father needs to help too - but maybe you both need to be on a different page, and having the phone might actually be causing more problems than it's solving. Unless her father is abusive, reducing their connect will absolutely be a bad thing for her in later life.

Are you able to access any professional help through school/ privately? We had some great advice that was uncomfortable but ultimately very helpful.