In-laws during divorce

[thinkingSilver]

Hi,
Our divorce is still in the early stages. Don’t have Decree Nisi yet. He is petitioning and dragging it out as much as possible.

In a couple of weeks my brother is getting married. The wedding is abroad but the venue is close to my in laws. I know as soon as I get there they will request to see the children without me, on their own.
Mother in law has broken me down so much and critisized me so much in the past. Mostly behind my back but I know about a fair amount.
I firmly believe at least a portion of the divorce is her fault and her need to have her boy very close to her.

As a principal, I would never leave my children on their own with someone who has spoken badly about me/ broken me down/ has very little respect for me.

It is right that if they ask to see the children, and they will undoubtably & I also want to do what’s best for the children and won’t deny them seeing their grandparents, that I stand my ground and say they are welcome to meet me and the children in a public space? Not their home?
I’m stressed about this.

What was the relationship with your in-laws like during or after the divorce?

I have to say, I don't understand why you're so stressed about this. What can they do to you? You're the mother, you call the shots.

Tell them they are welcome to see the children, where you designate, and you will be there as well for the duration of the visit. This is not a negotiation, op. You make the rules.

No experience with separation, but under your circumstances, I'd say "I'd love to meet up, but given the wedding, every second is accounted for with meals/drinks/kids parties/family meets etc. Do let me know when you've arranged with ex partner to see kids so I can understand why they are so excited"!

They live abroad? So presumably they don't get much chances to see their grand children?

I think it's very reasonable for them to want to see them. It's also reasonable for you to be with them if that's what you want. But why can it not be at their home?

Of course it might well be uncomfortable for you, but I think insisting on a public place is a bit unnecessary. It's natural to want one's grandchildren to come to the house. It's pretty unnatural to be expected to only meet them in a public place.

How old are the children and will you be there with your ex husband or not? If it’s just you and the kids, and the kids are young I’d probably just offer a quick meet up somewhere neutral and say you don’t have much time. If your kids are teens then I think you should ask them what they want to do.

I never spoke to my ils after I left dh.
Yanbu to suggest a park. If they are likely to slag you off eb unavailable altogether.. Surely their ds should be arranging the dc's visits in his time?

Say no. Just don't answer your phone.

Not your problem. My exMIL sees DD when her dad arranges, nothing to do with me. (I tried to maintain a relationship with her for DD’s sake. It didn’t work).

My ex outlaws sweet utterly evil to me. And I’ve not spoken to them since I got divorced. They’ve not seen my DC either.

Once divorced unless I have a cordial relationship with in laws I wouldn’t engage with them at all. I consider it a bonus never having to see or speak to them again.

I haven't spoken to the ex pil, since the separation. Which is fine by me.

If theyvwant to see the kids, they go through their son.

You don't need to facilitate them seeing the children. You are in the area for an event and it's not convenient to fit them in.

I don't think it is your job to facilitate IL who you don't get on with seeing DC when you are there for your own family event.

Their father can sort out them seeing the DC on his time, not yours.

@ saraclara. I don’t want to go to their house because I feel threatened and outnumbered.
To make matters worse, after I booked the flight for me and the children (and of course asking him permission & he was fine with it), he then went to book himself a flight too! Told me today. To spend that week with his parents.

I think he is first going to try and ask me on their behalf. If he does that, then I will let him know MIL is absolutely more than welcome to contact me directly.
And if she does, I’m certainly not going to take the children to in-laws house.
I will offer to meet at a park or restaurant.
Is that ok?
Children are 5 and 10.

Why are you going to meet them at all when yiu have a bad relationship with them?

Why do you need to facilitate this?

A park - this kids will want to play. A restaurants isn't so fun for you all to sit in making small talk. Especially, not for the kids.

Contact with the in laws happens on your ExH contact time. So what contact falls on that week when you are not out there?

I will offer to meet at a park or restaurant.
Is that ok?
Not really. You're making it about you and using the kids as a mean to control and punish them.

Don't see it as doing them a favour you think they don't deserve.

See it as you being the best mum and therefore giving them the chance to have previous time with their grand parents.

Kids are not stupid. If they decide to badmouth you, it will it go against them. You don't want them though to ask you why you wouldn't allow them to spend time at their house.

Don't be selfish, do the right thing by your kids.

I don’t get this notion that it’s the father’s job to facilitate contact. Yes in an ideal world this would happen, but these people live abroad, it’s not as if they can just pop round eOW is it?

And in truth these are the children’s family. They may not be OP’s family any more, but refusing to allow the children to see them on her time is making this about her and not them.

If the DH is over there then surely the best idea is to get him to take the DC for a period and take them to see his parents. After all, he is their father, and as long as you’re not actually sending them to his parents instead of the family function I don’t see why their father can’t have some contact during that period during which time he can take his children to see their grandparents.

I have an excellent relationship with my ILs although it took a couple of years to get there. But after my DS stopped staying at his dad’s, if I hadn’t facilitated contact it wouldn’t have happened. Or even before that there were times when I dropped DS off with his grandparents, why wouldn’t I? He certainly wouldn’t have thanked me for trying to make it about me.

Just say no, it's not convenient. You're travelling there for a wedding, so have other plans

If OP doesn’t have an amicable relationship with her outlaws then frankly it absolutely is on their son to facilitate a relationship with his child.

Perhaps they should be nicer to OP.

I don’t hesitate removing myself and my children from people who are nasty to me. Why would I want people who are horrible in my DC’s lives. They’ll inevitably turn their bullying on to my DC at some point if they they don’t tow the line.

What country OP? I think it's a bit weird that ex has booked to be there at the same time. They're not cooking up an abduction are they? Just a thought - it's possible - it's the ex deliberately going there at the same time bit that makes me think this could be worrying.

I wondered this too @heldinadream.
If its a country where you won't have as many rights as him then be careful.
The situation seems odd. Its your holiday. You wouldn't turn up on one of his holidays with the children for a bit of one on one time with them, so nor should he. If your children love your grandparents and don't get to see them often, that it would be a shame if they couldn't see them, but the in laws must come to meet you.

*Their grandparents

Op I think generally where relatives have been critical of you then they can’t expect you to go out of your way to facilitate a relationship with your children. However as they live abroad and can’t see dc often I would agree to meet up with them but I think you’re quite entitled to suggest a child focused activity like park or zoo to meet up.

Have you got written permission from your ex to take them? Whenever I’ve taken dc abroad I have always had a letter from exh. No one has ever asked for proof that I’m not abducted then but if your ex is nasty could he withdraw your rights to take them abroad?

Sorry I know nothing about the legalities here but it wouldn’t hurt to be prepared.

Thanks so much for your replies. I didn’t sleep well at all last night. Anxiety levels so so high.
I think as some of you’ve said, the thing that is stressing me out is being in their actual house and knowing how nasty they’ve been to me, but especially behind my back.

Contact weeks - we still live in the same house in the UK. He said to me in June that he was going to move out as soon as possible. I think he got advice to stay put - that’s my guess. Subsequently, there is no formal arrangement of who’s week it is. But it is incredibly stressful and toxic. I feel he’s messing with my mind too. Some days we will exhibit such conflicting signals and say things that are so toxic or otherwise things that shows that he has no clue that he is divorcing me at the moment?!? It is bizarre!

Regarding the abduction. I don’t think so at all. I think he booked a flight because he has never stayed home whilst I was away for work or an event. The children and I have stayed home lots when he was abroad for work or for weddings. But he has stayed behind himself. That’s why he booked a flight. He’s also a terrible mummy’s boy and I think he wants to be with his mum on his own.

I was just so looking forward for the first time to be away from him so I can heal! It’s just a few days! Why could he not go to his mum any other time?

The fact that is also going now is making me so incredibly anxious.
I’m scared that his mum, his dad and him will all team up against me. I feel outnumbered thinking about the possibility of being near them on my own (never mind the children).

The country is South Africa. He has to sign a declaration and he’s definitely said he will do it.
I fully understand that many of you can’t understand the stress and anxiety. Perhaps there’s been too much bullying in the past to deal with something like this on top.

OP in your shoes is seriously consider not seeing PILs. However, given their nature I would have been more tactical, not disclosing how close by we’d be if at all possible.

If it’s too late to pull that off now, yes I’d go for a meet up outside only. Presented as ‘wow lots of compulsory events for this wedding, but we can just about squeeze in xyz’

For any push for more ‘there isn’t time’ on repeat. Give no details of why not.

time with these PIL without your protection and support does not sound in your dcs best interests. Agree you need to be careful of abduction, make sure all paperwork is in place.

My PiL are also controlling (they wish of our kids) a bit of DH (it’s why he left his home country and lives here). Their fatal error was to be disrespectful of me.

Grandparents do no have a right to see grand children. Im with DH but I manage the dc exposure to the pil carefully to minimise their potential for negative impact. It actually means the kids and PIL have a good relationship, though they will never get what they think they want - dc visiting without us. Other cousins were forced to do this and now as young adults barely see their grandparents who of course cannot imagine why.

Ok that's easy then. Tell him it's your holiday with the DC and if he wishes to take the DC on holiday without you that's fine.

On your holiday WITH the DC you are not spending time with him or his parents and not are the DC as it's your holiday.

You could agree to hand the DC over to him when you return home at the airport provided SA have signed up to the Geneva convention. He would have to pay you for their return flights though.

OP, what happens if he takes them to see the GPs and then you get a phone call from him saying he’s decided to stay in SA with the kids?
Are you South African? Are the kids? Where do you legally stay in all this? Because to me it sounds like the beginning of a nightmare.