Ex denying contact with daughter?

[Zuuuuuuuut]

Posting on behalf of my partner, who isn’t on Mumsnet, hoping someone can help advise on a legal matter about denial of child contact. Not sure whether to post here or legal - so doing both.

The background: My partner has been divorced since March and separated for about 7 years. The divorce was horrible, took nearly 3 years, was high conflict. He had to take his Ex to court for both finances and child arrangements as she wouldn’t progress matters, sensibly discuss or compromise on anything. Mediation was horrendous. She lied and contradicted herself both in court and in the court statements, which was all online due to Covid). At the start of the divorce she assaulted him and the police were involved.

The FMH has now been sold and his Ex has now moved into a new property with their daughter (who has just turned 15). My partner is about to move to a cheaper area about 80 miles away. Because of the split of finances (he got 30%} and loss of work due to Covid he cannot afford to stay living in the same area- it’s just too expensive.

He is moving to somewhere that is familiar for his daughter, where she used to live prior to the divorce and still has close friends she can see at weekends. He involved his daughter in the relocation decision process and she has been saying positive things about his move - she originally suggested it, in fact.

Earlier this summer he repeatedly emailed his Ex asking when their daughter could come to stay with him during the holidays and she ignored him. He chased the email several times. Then, at short notice, his Ex arranged for her to visit relatives overseas during the weeks he’d originally asked to have her. The last week we had booked to go away on a UK holiday with me and my two children. All along his Ex has made it pretty much impossible for our two families to mix, which is why we don’t live together (yet).

A few weeks ago he wrote is Ex an email explaining that he will be moving away soon and the reasons why (not that he should have to justify this, but for clarity really). He has just has received a reply from her saying that basically she doesn’t approve of him moving away and that she will no longer allow their daughter to stay with him every other weekend.

She says it’s too disruptive for their daughter to be away at weekends during her GCSE year. He had planned to collect her on Friday afternoons and bring her back on Sunday early evening (with him doing all the driving or travelling with her by train).

Unfortunately because of her age the child arrangements court hearing resulted in a list of directions only - not a court order. It says in the directions that he should have contact with his daughter every other weekend and during the school holidays. We are not sure if these directions carry any weight at all.

His Ex is basically denying him contact.

What can he do?

My understanding is that directions of the court need complying with I would seek legal advice. Daughter being 15 what is her view she is old enough to decide

I kind of agree with the mum. That much travelling at weekends and by train is very disruptive.
I get that the mum has been disruptive but not sure he's putting his daughter at the heart of things.
So he got 30%. Can he really buy nothing locally or just not something as big as he wants?

It’s not train - he’d be collecting and returning her by car

No he’d only get a studio in a crappy area. It’s a city and can afford nothing appropriate for a teenager staying overnight.

Most kids this age get in from school on a Friday afternoon and then sit glued to their phones for at least an hour and a half…. She could be sat doing that in a car and then have a lovely weekend with her Dad in a nice area near her friends.

What does DD say? At 15 I assume she has a phone and is in regular contact with her father? Does she say she wants to come but mum is stopping her?

What may be happening is that at 15 her social life is where she lives and she may not want to be away at weekends but doesn't want to upset her dad by saying that herself.

Again - her closer friends are in the area he’s moving to - she lived there 2 years ago

Her Mum isn’t blatant about it - not stopping her exactly, just constantly messing up plans by giving better options, like trips to IKEA to choose new furniture for her room, organising trips overseas which are ‘better’ etc

So if he insists on her coming for the weekend he’s usually ruining a better ‘fun’ plan or opportunity.

I think it’s very sad that contact with his daughter isn’t prioritised more - even living around the corner it’s been made difficult.

It’s also a shame there aren’t more Dads active on Mumsnet who could give a more balanced view.

I'm not sure if it's just dads who have the ability to give a balanced view.

If people aren't saying what you want, it might be because what you want isn't going to work.

It's very hard to be prescriptive about contact time for children that age.

I was in a similar situation- proceedings started when my children were much younger. By the time things had been settled, ds2 had decided to live with his dad so I am a non-resident parent. Even though I am not a dad, I feel capable of saying that it's important to focus on the quality of the relationship rather than the amount of time with your teenage child.

Sometimes ds2 wants to do stuff with his friends, just like ds1 does here. Sometimes he doesn't fancy coming on whatever holiday we've planned. Forcing him wouldn't work. What works is planning trips and time together that match his interests. We play video game or guitar together, or we cook, or we go to concerts.

It's important to separate the left over emotions of difficult court proceedings from the time you have with your child while they're still a child.

Believe me often on these threads I'm very much team dad having seen the bullshit some friends have been through with ex wives , also I have one now ex friend who seriously used her child as a weapon. Hence being an ex friend as I couldn't agree with what she was doing.
At 15 my sil stopped going to her dads because she was bored there. As simple as that. At 15 they will go for the better option. Maybe a compromise would agreeing with daughter that she visits 2 or 3 weekends a month so that she gets a weekend a month to do other stuff with mum or other family.

I’m divorced myself and have the every other weekend thing with my Ex as well. I’ve always m supported his time with them and never deliberately messed with their plans or organised ‘better’ stuff on purpose. There have been occasional events that happened on his weekend like concerts and extended family events and we agreed to swap weekends or whatever - we worked together on a solution. I don’t like my Ex and we are in contact only minimally, but I respect the fact that he’s still their Dad and he should have a relationship with them.

But that’s not what’s happening for my DP and his daughter. His time with her is not respected or valued - quite the opposite. His plans (and yes he plans specifically for her interests) are derailed - often last minute.

@saladcreamandegg he’s had every other weekend working mostly OK for 2 years and isn’t wanting more - just the same to continue

The daughter is 15. She an age where her dad should be able to have this conversation with her. Explain that he wants them to spend time together every other weekend and it's rude for her to cancel when she knows dad has made plans for them.

Did you not like the answers on the previous thread. The OP seems to be almost a cut and paste job.

By age 15 things do change. The daughter is starting to realise there is a choice. E.g. Holiday abroad or go to dads. Of course she chooses holiday abroad.
If mum is deliberately making this hard then he just needs to be consistent that he's there for her, he loves her and wait it out. She will come back to him. (But maybe not every other weekend.)

Can he travel up on Saturday and take her for lunch? Or do something in her area one Sunday. Maybe she'll come to you once a month? Maybe a little less....but as long as he keeps contact....phoning and what's app then she will know that he's there for her.

At 15 it should be centred on what she wants, not her mum or dad’s wants. If she wants to visit her dad, and the mum is refusing, then he needs to start legal proceedings to support that. Neither parent should be blocking the other from whatever contact the 15yr old does or does not want.

The GCSE year is an excuse. Plenty of DC of split parents see both their parents and still do well on exams (if they even have them next year!).

I’m a bit unsure about the assault & police story though because if it were true, then I doubt the court would have let the mum be resident parent of the child. Did the court know? Perhaps it happened after the court decision? If so, your DH should be doing court proceedings for the 15yr old to live with him because it’s not good for any child to be living with a parent that has been arrested for assault.

At 15 she's far too old to have contact dictated by either parent. She'll just get sick of both of them.

Both of them need to take a big step back and listen to their daughter.

Why doesn't your partner just pick the phone up and ask his daughter what she wants to do? Call me old-fashioned...

@Caramellatteplease I posted the same simultaneously - check the times - I was not sure where it was more relevant and it says that at the start of my post. There were more replies in legal first. I’ve replied in both places.

@PartridgeFeather he talk to her face to face - of course - she wants to see him but very often her Mum arranges other things last minute and it’s basically harder to disagree with her than her Dad.

@PlanDeRaccordement

“I’m a bit unsure about the assault & police story though because if it were true, then I doubt the court would have let the mum be resident parent of the child. Did the court know? Perhaps it happened after the court decision? If so, your DH should be doing court proceedings for the 15yr old to live with him because it’s not good for any child to be living with a parent that has been arrested for assault.”

Yes - it is true

The assault of her Dad by her Mum was when she was 12 and at the start of the divorce. Police were called and her Mum was arrested and put in a cell for the night. It happened because she arrived back at the FMH when he still lived there and wanted the 3 of them to have dinner together - when he’d made plans to go out for the evening with me. She basically tried to stop him from going out. Hit him, burnt him with a cigarette, threw his car keys down the toilet, smashed his phone up so he couldn’t call anyone.

Throughout the divorce her Mum has accused her Dad of “playing the victim / playing the domestic abuse card” etc and she basically intimidated him.

The month before the final child arrangements hearing she put pressure on him to withdraw the details of the incident from his position statement. She sent abusive emails and sent their daughter round to ask him to withdraw the case. My DP actually felt suicidal at this point because things were so bad, so his position statement ended up being very weak and did not mention the assault incident.

He knows now that of course he should have been stronger - but he was finding the divorce very hard going.

They both self-represented. He’d run out of money for solicitors by that point.

It’s now too late to go back - because of her age. The court see stuff like this all the time and they don’t do anything about it.

IME the courts often don't care even when the resident parent has been violent and intimidating towards the kids, never mind towards the other parent. The system is complete shite and often just makes a bad situation worse.

Irrelevant what either parent thinks is the "right" thing to happen, what counts is the teen's feelings. If your partner just stepped back and told his daughter he cares and is always there for her, he'd make her life a whole lot easier. Fighting for control over a girl that age is vile.

What does the daughter want. This is critical.
My own 15 year old has just started year 11 and GCSE year. She has mocks in Nov and Feb. She has decided she won't stay at her dads (about 8miles away) as she feels settled and focussed at home.

Can he not just travel up and take her for a meal or bowling for a few hours rather than force the weekend thing.

Wow that is terrible OP. Is the mother still being controlling like that, but only with her daughter now? Your DH really needs to find out what his daughter wants in all this.

Yup - horribly controlling of both my DP bevies they separated and always with their daughter.

There’s also a lot of pressure on her academically. I have to stay right out of it because my parenting approach is completely different. With DP’s Ex it is all about status / Oxbridge / being a surgeon or a vet / earning loads of money / etc …even talking with the right accent. There’s not much consideration about downtime and I don’t see that she has adequate opportunities to speak up about what SHE wants out of life. Seems more about living vicariously through a child and/or using them as a trophy.

Before not bevies above - not sure where that came from!