complicated possible forced sale of house

[NastyPastie]

Hi all

I got divorced 2 years ago. We were together 11 years, have 4 children, and I basically stopped working to bring up the children, so we went to court regarding financial settlement. At the time I was unemployed and living in the former matrimonial home.

The Court decided to give me a year to basically buy ex-husband out, and take his name off the mortgage. I raised the funds to do this, and have paid the £1k mortgage myself since April 2017. Trouble is that I'm on what is considered a low income, and part of my income is made up of Universal Credit payments which lenders (most of) won't consider in terms of affordability for a mortgage.

I'm with Santander, and they flatly refused me on the basis of my income. A broker tried to arrange a mortgage but our credit history became an issue, basically when we separated he was insisting I paid 50% of his rent as well as 50% of the mortgage, and given I was unemployed at the time I negotiated with Santander and with their understanding we did not pay the mortgage for 6 months. This was not technically classed as a default as it was accepted by the lenders that it was a temporary situation until the case was sorted. I paid the arrears, and have paid the mortgage ever since.

Now ex-husband wants to, understandably, stop renting and buy a house of his own but his name is still on our mortgage. I originally had 12 months to take his name off the mortgage, but Covid hit, and I was unemployed... struggling completely with mental health, finances etc. Against all odds I managed to get a full-time job and have increased my pay this year, but still a proportion of my income is made up of Universal Credit so I find myself trapped.

I can afford the mortgage, and have a secure full-time job. He wants me to sell, and I am in complete panic as the house is in such a mess, and I don't know what to do. I know there is the Court Order from two years ago - can he simply apply for it to be enforced, then I will just have to sell? Bearing in mind he hasn't paid the mortgage for years, and he received his financial stake in the house a year or more ago - it is mine in all but name.

It is the most frustrating position, because I am going to have to end up renting, spending the same as I would on a mortgage... with no prospect of being able to afford to get back on the housing ladder because my finances are in such poor shape after having a career break and divorce. I am seeking legal help later in the week, and going to talk to an EA about the situation. Ex-husband has Asperger's and cannot negotiate with me. The four children (aged 14, 12, 10 and 8) do not want to lose their family home, and I just don't know what to do. I'm trying to hold it together... but am in real panic.

Hi op,

As others have said, you need a broker.

I have a mortgage with NatWest, £175k approx when I bought the ex out and my full time salary was only £21k at the time. They took into account child maintenance payments and tax credits, child benefit.

I’ve heard that Halifax will too.

My broker was Luke Saint from Mortgage Thoughts- they do charge though, about £500 but for me it was worth every penny.

I have heard that there are good free brokers too.

Good luck!

Please don't go from lender to lender. The last two posts, as much as they are trying to help, are not giving the right lenders to go to. You are going to need a broker. Mortgage arrears, which is what they will be seen as, is not easy to get past when applying for a new mortgage and if I'm honest I've no idea why you helped him pay half his rent and stopped paying half your mortgage but what's done is done.

There are specialist brokers that deal with adverse, but I imagine most will charge a fee on offer or completion because it is a lot of work.

If I were yo I'd download my credit file and call round.

Hi OP, you might find this thread interesting, and there are others like it.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters/4183837-Mortgage-ex-misled-court?msgid=105336705#105336705
Basically there is not a lot you can do to remove yourself from a mortgage. As I said earlier, your ex could take it to court but the judge would be most interested in ensuring your joint children remained housed. The idea you would be forced into a 'fire sale' of your family home is ludicrous.

Also one sentence stands out: Judges cannot order to remove people’s names from mortgages, as it’s the banks decision who to lend to.

As I said earlier, your ex could take it to court but the judge would be most interested in ensuring your joint children remained housed. The idea you would be forced into a 'fire sale' of your family home is ludicrous.

1. The children will be housed, OP has already said she can afford to rent, she just doesn’t want to. According to OP, there is at least 140k equity in the house which is solely hers as she already bought her ex out. I’m curious as to how she managed to raise 70k to buy him out so quickly (whilst unemployed) & if that has to be paid back but even if it does, that still leaves her with at 70k.

1. OP has already had 2 years to sort this out & by the time it gets to court / a sale goes through we’ll be talking 3+ years so it’s ludicrous to say it’s any sort of fire sale. Depending on the terms of the order, OP might be able to buy a bit more time but if her earnings aren’t likely to change in the near future then she’s just kicking the problem down the road temporarily.

1. The divorce is already done so any court hearing would be about enforcing the order already issued, not rehashing who got what. I would guess that there is some very pertinent information missing from OP’s posts as I find it highly unbelievable that a judge would order an unemployed mother of 4, who gave up her career to look after the children, out of the house in only a year & with only 52% of the equity; especially when her ex is a high earner (which she facilitated). I’d hazard a guess that there was a trade off in the divorce & OP got something else in lieu of more equity etc.

Also one sentence stands out: Judges cannot order to remove people’s names from mortgages, as it’s the banks decision who to lend to.

Yes but judges can order the sale of the house which has already been done, OP’s just not complied.

Not sure why you are so invested in scaring this woman unnecessarily, but in response...

Renting is considered insecure housing and in my experience not something that a resident parent of 4 children would be forced into without serious reason. Certainly not one who owns their home solely and is meeting all mortgage repayments.

Your curiosity at the OP being able to buy him out is irrelevant. I would hazard a guess that family have stepped in to help. Doesnt matter, that aspect of the order was primary and has been met.

There was no order for sale as the ex has been bought out. He is not on the deeds and has no claim on the house. If the order used the words 'best endeavours' to remove from the mortgage, then she has already done that and therefore fulfilled the terms of the order. I used the word fire sale as that was what was suggested earlier by a similarly uninformed person.

Yes, certainly the terms used are relevant as already mentioned, but also the most important part - him getting his share - has been fulfilled. OP may be in a position in a few years to get her own mortgage, needing a little longer on one aspect of the order is entirely feasible especially where children are involved.

A judge cannot compel the bank to take him off the mortgage, even if she can meet the payments. Even if they can see and can be proved she can meet the payments, even if its half the cost of renting. What they can do is extend the order for a few years to protect the housing security of the children.

Honestly OP I would roll the dice on this one. Even if it goes back to Court, even if they say you have to remove him or sell. It buys you time, you wont have to do it any hurry. And more likely, if you can show a plan to get there and show how hard you have already tried, you will be given more time.

My OH’s EW had a consent order that clearly detailed the FMH had to be marketed for sale should a trigger point be reached (in this case it was a date - a date that she had agreed to 5 years earlier).

When the trigger point was reached (the date) she refused to market the property for sale and comply with the consent order. Ranted about changing the order as it now didn’t suit her to sell.

My OH took her to court for a judge to enforce the order (she refused to discuss selling).

Due to Covid delays it took 5 months to get the enforcement hearing to court (by this time the sale of the property had been delayed by 9 months). She argued she wanted another 6 months and she & the children (12 & 15) would be made homeless.

The judge told her ‘her housing needs weren’t his concern and he was enforcing the sale’. My OH was given 5 days to get 3 valuations, she was given 5 days to decide the agent and the house had to be on the market for sale within 15 days. If she failed to stick to the timeline she would be removed from the sale process & the judge would act on her behalf.

I should add that was wasn’t being made homeless as she claimed, she got £200k equity from the sale. She just didn’t want to move or rent.

The house has now been sold.

It is near impossible to get a consent order over turned. By stalling you are only delaying the inevitable. If he takes this to court for enforcement you may well be taken out of the process & could lose any control you may have in the process.

The OP has not bought the ex out. Giving him a share of the equity is only part of the order. She also has to cover his share of the outstanding of the debt as well and remove his obligation to the lender. She has not complied with the court order.

She needs to be realistic about what she can do and that’s why posters are giving the advice they are. If the court thought it appropriate to extend the order for a few more years they would have given her that time. They didn’t. The ex is now taking her to court to enforce the order. That is what will be decided.

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea I’m not trying to scare OP, this is the Divorce / separation board so I’m trying to give her straight forward advice. I’m more than happy to handhold on the Relationship board however I think it’s irresponsible to not try & be realistic here. People think they’re being kind but false hope can be damaging as well.

Basically OP wants all the benefits of a mesher order (having her ex stay on the mortgage indefinitely) with none of the drawbacks (allowing him to retain equity & therefore an investment), unfortunately she cannot have it both ways.

A lot of the stuff you’re bringing up - such as renting being insecure housing - is irrelevant. The time to argue that was at the divorce & the divorce is now done. The judge, who was privy to a lot more information then we are, has already issued a court order. OP is potentially walking away with 70k - 140k in equity so you’re deluded if you think a judge is going to keep her ex on the hook indefinitely. Like I said, in my experience a ruling like this is usually because there was a trade off of other assets, equal residency of the children etc. It’s highly unusual if not.

OP, we can all speculate till the cows come home but as a solicitor already said up thread, you need proper legal advice.

I wish you all the best & I hope everything works out.

There was another thread on here where the judge had ordered the sale of the house after divorce and the poster was delaying because the house needed work and she didn’t think she’d get a good price for it. She also had kids and couldn’t afford to buy elsewhere and the judge basically told her to get it sold or she would be removed from the process. She was different from op in that she had already marketed it then taken it off again when she only got low offers.

I mean that thread could have been made up (as could all of mumsnet!) but I don’t think “stick your head in the sand and hope judge is sympathetic” is a wise tactic after court order has been made.

@seasonschange
That is very similar to my story, I was given 14 days to get out of the family home with my then 11 year old and £45,000 of costs awarded against ie every penny of equity from the house.
Repairing his credit record was of more importance than the children having a safe secure home

It doesn’t seem fair that your reluctance to rent and inability to get a mortgage (for whatever reason) should hold him back from moving on with his life after this long.

[quote JaneKing75]@seasonschange
That is very similar to my story, I was given 14 days to get out of the family home with my then 11 year old and £45,000 of costs awarded against ie every penny of equity from the house.
Repairing his credit record was of more importance than the children having a safe secure home[/quote]
That sounds really shit. I’m so sorry.

It's easy to be cross with the judge and the solicitors etc but at the end of the day they are only implementing the wishes of their client/the other side, all anger has to be directed at the "fathers" of the children who bring these cases in the first place. I don't know how they sleep at night.

I also experienced a forced sale of my house by the courts and I had two small children with special needs.

I do think you have to be realistic here op. Obviously get legal advice on your current position but start thinking about how it would work if you do have to sell up rather than fight against it when you are not likely to be successful.

I disagree with taking legal advice and adding to the expense. To be blunt I spent £24,000 on barristers and solicitors, the barrister was very blunt and said I didn't have a leg to stand on as we walked into court. And to be utterly blunt, you don't either OP. I honestly thought my ex would be shown up for the shitty father he is and the judge would consider this. They can't is the truth. It doesn't matter.
Just get it sold before the market drops again, take what you can and start again. The sooner you get focused on that the better.
Seriously, I've had a £10,500 pay rise since I stopped focusing on this crap and started getting my head in the game rebuilding my life.