I am the breadwinner.

[IveNameChangedAgain2020]

Hi, I was after some advice (I know that I do need to take advice from a SL divorce lawyer).

I am the breadwinner - now by a significant amount. My husband is financially immature - CCJs, bailiffs you name it he's done it. He's never been motivated to earn more because I've covered everything.

For context he contributes half to small mortgage (interest only) and half bills, but nothing for anything else. Eg New Windows, doors, food, etc we needed over the years. My mum and I have also done all of the childcare, but now children are 24 and 16.

I really think I want to divorce. He hasn't matured, cant see how his irresponsibility has negatively impacted our family - and when we were talking about a house purchase he said he wanted to take £50k out to "start his own business". Everything is about what he can take out not what's best for our family.

We have a declaration of trust that protected my deposit but at the actual amount (£89k) not the % amount which was a third at the time. House is now worth £750k.

If we divorced do you think

• I'd get my £89k back and rest of equity be split 50/50
• be overruled by courts and just split everything 50/50
• I'd have to give him more % because I now earn more?

He's been financially and emotionally abusive over the duration of our marriage, and I think this discussion has weirdly broken the camels back.

@IveNameChangedAgain2020

I'm a breadwinner so I've been doing some research on this. My situation is a bit different to yours - my children are a lot younger - and if you don't mind me making the assumption, I guess you're maybe a bit older than me too and this will be a factor.

The bad news is that the courts won't care who provided most of the childcare. They've grown up, you probably can't prove who looked after them the most and the consideration of needs for the children will cease when your youngest is 18. They'll assume all decisions in marriage were joint too so they won't be interested in whether your ex is a lazy arse. All they'll care about is that both parties have their needs met.

Now, this is where your case is very different to mine because there's not a lot of childcare left to give in your case and that's going to affect needs. When the courts look at splitting assets first they consider the sharing principle (50/50 on the basis that each spouse is assumed to have contributed equally), then compensation principle (think high flyer giving up a career but this is rarely used because for most people needs is more generous) and then finally needs.

So, let's think about your STBX's needs. Assuming he wants contact with your 16 year old, he might need a 2 bedroom flat. Guessing he can easily get that from 50/50 on the sharing principle and maybe even without the £89k (but you really will need a solicitor's opinion on the trust, I don't have a clue).

Once the assets are divided, you have to think about income needs as well. He will be expected to maximise his earning capacity and as it sounds like home equity will buy him a flat outright he won't have housing costs. So I'm suspecting spousal maintenance is unlikely.

The only concerns I would have in your situation are whether you know about all his debts and what the pensions are like. He doesn't sound like the kind of person to save one from the picture you paint, whereas you do. The worrying thing is he might get a bite of 50% of yours. On top of that, if he has a lot of secret debt you might find the family pot dwindling before it is divided.

That's my thoughts, but of course a solicitor will talk a lot more sense!

Thank you @FutureExH I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. I'm 44 - had children very young. Don't know if that's old

We're in London so the equity split won't buy anything outright.

I guess at a stretch I could stomach 50/50 but why would I have to pay spousal maintenance do you think? Do you think it could go more in his favour as he earns less?

This stuff is always quite complicated. I think you will have evidence (ccj records) of financial abuse which will help. Declaration of trust may hold up, good that you have it.

He will have the right to secure housing for his needs. With the kids largely adults, I'd expect that'd be something modest.

He'll be encouraged to get a job and support himself. If he truly has no income, there's a risk that there could be a short spousal maintenance period ordered. Frequently that can be offset with the split of capital.

Would recommend trying to agree things amicably, or via mediation. Legal process is very expensive and unless there's suspected foul play (hiding capital) or vast assets, then the solicitors are the only ones that win. My XW went full legal on a modest pot and ended up worse than what I would have agreed to amicably and burned all he bridges with me and our respective families.

He sounds like a waste of space. Can totally understand why you'd want out. I get the feeling you've been very patient already.

I was told spousal maintenance is very rarely paid now unless the receiving party is very close to retirement age without a job or cannot work on health grounds. I'd be surprised if you had to pay it.

You may well have to split everything else 50/50 though, including pensions.

@BasicDad thank you. He does work 5 days a week as I do but just doesn't earn what I do. Probably a third - he won't tell me.

@IveNameChangedAgain2020

Not much older than me, I apologise. It also changes things slightly again, means your STBX has plenty of earning years left in him so less of a claim for spousal maintenance.

I should point out I have no idea what you or he earns anyway, so don't let me scare you with spousal maintenance. It would be a consideration when both parties are 50+ if there was a big income discrepancy but at your age there's more than 20 years of work to go, plenty of time for him to earn more.

Cross posted with @FutureExH and good to see we almost said the same 🙂

Even if the other party has contributed little to nothing and been financially abusive, stomaching 50/50 is the right expectation to give yourself.

It never seems fair, but as the breadwinner your future prospects are great, and nothing beats the feeling once it's over and the dead weight you've got rid of is gone.

I paid spousal for 4 years, paid both parties legal fees and split assets and pensions 50:50. It's over and I'm well on the road to recovery. Will never partner with someone that doesn't have the same work ethic as myself.

That sucks.

Can you separate but not divorce? To keep hold of your pension, etc?

@Ultimatecougar

This spousal maintenance thing being rare claim is a real mystery to me. I'm not saying you're wrong by the way, just that the opinions on Mumsnet are very different to the ones I see on Wikivorce.

Wikivorce keep hammering home the point that it's not how much you earn, it's what the needs of each party are and whether one can afford to pay the other.

It would be interesting to get some stats from a family lawyer.

Oh...if he works 5 days/week. Then I'd expect no spousal. He can look after himself, and buy somewhere to live with the distribution of capital.

Pensions could get messy I'm afraid. Especially if there's a big gap.

One other thing. Be careful what money he has access to and line of credit. It's quite common for scorned partners to go out and buy a car out of available capital, as a 'need'. Or add it to the monthly income 'needs'.

@BasicDad

I'd really value more info on what you say about spousal maintenance. If you don't mind me asking, what were the respective salaries of you and the ex?

I'm on about £70k and my wife doesn't work. Presumably she'll be expected to get a part time job and could earn about £12k. We'd be fairly close in incomes after UC, CB and CM. I'd get a bit more but it would go on the commute pretty much. What do you reckon my risk is?

Hey @FutureExH I'll keep it as brief as poss to avoid thread hijack. XW had MH illness and chose not to work, despite being able. I left the matrimonial home (with my child), and setup in a rental. I had to cover the mortgage and her living needs. There was a big solicitor slanging match over what those needs were though...they took the piss basically.

If I was guessing, I'd assume child maintenance will cover majority of spousal needs. Although if there is a shortfall, you might need to think about support while she builds up her income. Just watch out for piss taking and try and keep it amicable.

That wasn't that short...soz. PM if you want any advice 👍🏻

@PerveenMistry my pension isn't huge as I've been shouldering all the additional bills and expenses. I wouldn't want to build on any further assets with him being able to claim half because we were married?

@FutureExH I have just been through a divorce and I was advised spousal maintenance would not be awarded to me even though he earns more than 3 times my salary. I earn a living and that's that.

For context my ex earns more than 100k pa.

@Ultimatecougar

Many thanks for coming back to be on that. I actually found a hen's tooth since my post too, a solicitors' website that says spousal maintenance is rare. Normally the posts seem to be more like marketing, making it sound normal.

From what I can gather it tends to only go to the weaker party in modest earning households when the kids are already grown up nowadays. A lot of SAHPs will get years of child maintenance to avoid the sudden cliff edge (assuming it was paid, I was shocked and appalled how often it isn't) but older couples face the cliff earlier. That said, I do worry I could find a spousal claim through the post once the children are 18. The child maintenance will be quite a big part of my STBX's income and she'll probably still have a mortgage 13 years from now. She could be down to about £1.6k compared to my £4k a month and com after me for a piece if I can't get a section 28(1A) Bar.

Speaking to a solicitor even if just for basic advice is a lot more useful than using google as legal resource

[quote IveNameChangedAgain2020]@BasicDad thank you. He does work 5 days a week as I do but just doesn't earn what I do. Probably a third - he won't tell me. [/quote]
Then you’re the higher earner, not the “breadwinner”, really.

@FutureExH spousal maintenance used to be more common, but I was told the courts these days prefer a clean break agreement other than for Child Maintenance. If paid, it's generally only in situations where one party has been a SAHP for several years and then only on a short term basis until they can get work or finish training for work.

Or if one party cannot work for health reasons, or they are retirement age and the other party has a high income. After a long marriage.