Capitalisation of spousal maintenance - any experiences?

[Bobsmyaunty]

High earner and SAHM (who is desperately trying to get back in to work! I swore I would never become financially independent on any man, but hey ho, here we are). Two children, 8 and 6.

We have more or less agreed to a 60/40 asset split on the basis that he can get a mortgage plus has a very recent inheritance (which I'm happy to keep out of the pot).

Sticking point on pensions which I think should be 50/50, which brings our overall split down to 57 / 43. He thinks pensions should stay as they are. Which is a 53/47 split overall.

CM he is fine with.

HOWEVER, his real sticking point is spousal. He finds it restrictive and does not want to have conversations about how it should change as life changes. He wants to get a job closer so he can do pick ups which means a salary drop, I do support this even though I was asking and asking during our marriage and he was no no no. Plus, I will getting a job so lots of uncertainties which I argue is a case for ongoing spousal.

He really really wants to capitalise it. He hates the discussions. I get that.

But ... how do you even start working it out?

He did a spreadsheet with some optimistic increases in my salary. And said, well, show me a calculation you're happy with. I honestly DO NOT KNOW.

Any experiences, advice?

So I was assuming I would pay my wife some spousal maintenance but it turns out if I did she would lose her universal credit £1 for £1.

As a SAHM with no other income sources (except child maintenance, which is not considered as income for universal credit purposes) you can get around £850 of universal credit a month. However, if your STBX pays you £850 a month in spousal maintenance, you will lose all of your universal credit and still be on £850 a month. You'll also be dependent on him paying rather than the state.

On the other hand, if you capitalise it and get it onto the home equity of your principal residence nice and fast, you can still receive all of your universal credit.

Unless he's a very high earner and you're expecting spousal maintenance well in excess of £1k a month then it is not worth pursuing.

What I plan to propose to my STBX is to take a higher amount of child maintenance for a few years to adjust, an asset split 60/40 in her favour including pensions and also that I will pay the higher earner tax charge on child benefit whilst she receives it and keep spousal maintenance off the books.

Thank you.

Does STBX stand for what I think it stands for? i.e. is it rude?

He's definitely a decent man, but he is in a state of fear about his future. He is used to a lot of autonomy and not having many restrictions on him. So I think he is freaking out about having to regularly pay what will be a sum each month that covers costs until I get on my feet.

He is a very high earner, and at present could easily meet a spousal of £2.5 a month with plenty left over. But that will change - based on what his says - in about 8 months and his salary might drop by a third.

@Bobsmyaunty STBX stands for "soon to be ex-husband/wife"

Oh that's so much better!

I thought it stood for stupid b*stard ex

@Bobsmyaunty 🙈🤣

Quite a different situation from mine then. I can understand the desire for a clean break though, from the higher earners perspective. It's not so much wanting to keep the money but having certainty in the future. I'd rather give my STBX more of the assets now rather than have a house I buy in the future ripped out from under me because she suddenly can't work or something. What concerns me about open ended SM is that it keeps the door wide open on all kinds of claims, which could become more unreasonable as we grow apart.

YES I absolutely get that.

From the opposite perspective, I've been out of work for nine years and I just do not know how long it will take to get my on my feet again. I had an interview on Tuesday (part time) and the salary was okay but not enough to support me and the kids and a house. So I was really hoping he would just shore up the difference until I can meet it.

But he's not keen. He doesn't want to have ongoing discussions on money and wants it done and dusted and then he can do whatever he wants - take time out to do up a house he has mentioned. I want that life for him too. But not in a way that I am freaking out about meeting the bills for me and the kids.

I think the problem is trust, and if that is there, the next is certainty about the future and that is just impossible, really.

But I really do empathise with both positions.

It’s difficult for people to say as we have no idea on the value of assets, his earnings, pension, your potential earnings etc

What does your solicitor advise? How long are you expecting it?

I was wondering about you actually go about calculating it rather than the figures themselves.

Is it literally how much spousal you expect to pay over ten years (i.e. until youngest in 18) added up? And how do you work out the expected amount if both parties don't know what jobs they will have.

You need legal advice. Even if you resolve this via mediation you need to fully understand your options. If he is a very high earner I expect he would like to settle out of court but it may well not be in your best interests.

Every high earner claims that they will suddenly take a drop in earnings post divorce. And often magically don’t …. You really need proper advice. If the pot is decent you’ll get a free hour or even more from a good solicitor. You need advice on the pensions issue too

@KatherineSiena

You need legal advice. Even if you resolve this via mediation you need to fully understand your options. If he is a very high earner I expect he would like to settle out of court but it may well not be in your best interests.

I agree. And capitalisation is worked out in court by some sort of table (can't remember what they're called).

That’s the Duxbury calculation.

You know, I did think he would be unlikely to do a calculation for spousal and then go get a very high paid job.

But actually I think that’s exactly what he hopes to do!

Druxbury Table - I’ll look that up.

Thanks!

You absolutely must take advice. I am a divorce lawyer and the issue you face is complicated. How much capital do you eachhave? How much and when realistically can you earn? What is his future earnings trajectory (forget the step down in his salary, he won’t). What will your respective housing costs be going forward. If he is a high earner and you haven’t worked for nine years you are almost certainly entitled to spousal for a decent period and capitalising it will be expensive. Get some decent advice not a freebie half an hour from a high street solicitor. The cost will be worth it either in outcome or peace of mind knowing you have your fair entitlement. Look at chambers and partners website for someone good and local to you. Your husband may not be being tricky. He is probably as scared as you but you must find out your true position. No offence to people on here but you need proper advice!

I'd suggest checking out the website wikivorce as they have some good calculators. Similar situation, exh and I split assets 60 40 in my favour and pensions were discounted as roughly equal. He paid me spousal of 1.2k per month for two years as that allowed me to get my career going again. The figure was arrived at roughly via a wikivorce calculator, and he was happy once he'd seen it in black and white (was saying much less before this). He still far out earns me but I have a decent paid job/career and we support the dc 50 50, so it's not my money any more, in my head. We both had enough to buy a property.

Please read what @JosephK said and do this.