Social workers / mental health professionals advice needed - Child contact / ExH sectioned / mediation / court

[smarty4]

My ExH was sectioned (s.2 Mental Health Act) and in hospital for 11 days. He was discharged recently and is now pushing for contact. Usually has our child every other weekend for two nights.

I know very little about his condition his finance advised it was a psychotic episode and he says it was a one off incident but won't elaborate. He has now spilt up with his fiancé (they also had a baby together) and is living with family.

I have requested he confirm via his Gp or mental health medical professional the reasons for his admission, reason for discharge, any safe guarding concerns regarding him looking after our child whilst in his care, information regarding medication in so far as it would effect his care of our child (I've been told he now can't drive for 3 months which I assume is due to new meds). He's refusing to provide this information saying he has no diagnosis, he's feeling really well and he'll follow up his treatment with his community mental health team therefore a gp letter would not say anything further.

He's now pushing mediation and court. I don't mind going to court as I know CAFCASS would want the same information for their assessment but I don't see the point in mediation.

By way of background we have done mediation at least twice over contact issues and it never resolved the issue (he just eventually conceded to my proposal as it was the reasonable one). For reference he is extremely unreasonable, bullying and can be verbally / emotionally abusive (I don't have sufficient evidence of this though to meet the MIAM exception).

In this case I will not change my position until I see a letter from a professional confirming the above before resuming usual contact. He knows this therefore I can't see what progress can be made at mediation. It'll just be another expense for me as I'll have to pay half.

I am offering video contact and supervised visits but he is declining supervised visits as he doesn't see the need.

My question is, do I have to do mediation? If I don't will it reflect badly?
I have spoken to my child's health visitor and a solicitor who says my stance is reasonable but his mediation request has thrown me.

Any advice or thoughts on how to proceed would be very welcome.

Hmm to you smarty4. A psychotic episode is no picnic certainly. How old is the child and what is their relationship like? I'd go with your HV and solicitor tbh and just take your time to think it through. I do work in the area but am not obviously a professional on here .

He's right in some ways - he won't be able to get a GP letter, he will be under the adult mental health team.

If he's staying with family could he not have them whilst they're around so if something happens they can step in? I think it's totally reasonable to want some reassurance about what measures can be implemented, but if he was still a threat to himself or others he wouldn't have been released.

I've worked with a few people who have been sectioned after a psychotic episode. They're usually dosed right up on medication and visited every day by the MH team. 11 days seems quite a short time though, the few I've worked with have been sectioned for a couple of months at a time after the episode.

Thank you @blackcurrantjam and @Shinesun14 for replying.

Our child is 4.5 years and has a good relationship with their dad on the whole. ExH and I have issues regarding his behaviour towards me / trust and transparency but these are kept out of their contact.

My concern with ExH family helping with supervised visits is that they are not the most reasonable and they lack the necessary insight into mental health (were in denial ExH was sectioned and don't realise it wasn't just a hospital admission for a day procedure).

Does your ex take drugs OP? Sounds like a drug induced psychosis given the short admission, quick recovery, lack of diagnosis and 3 months of no driving.

You have parental responsibility for the child therefore you must be certain they are properly cared for and you are wholly responsible for their welbeing - including when they are with other people EVEN if they are the dad If you have cause for concern about that persons ability to care for them.

The mediator will provide a report to court and yes they will say if you refused to engage. It might be worth going through the motions for that reason. Definitely go to court though, if your ex isn’t communicating properly with you and giving you the reassurance you need then the courts will order a disclosure.

I thought drugs too, tbh.....

@TolkiensFallow and @Shinesun14 I have no proof he takes drugs. The 11 years we were together I never saw him take drugs but would go on big drinking benders.

Thank you for the advice regarding mediation, I thought that would be the case annoyingly (as I still won't change my position until I have the information.)

He's saying his mental health team were 'surprised' by my request for information and won't provide it. Is that normal? I thought they would at least liaise with me when children are involved or risk assess? But guess may not put it in black and white until court ordered to do so.

[quote smarty4]**@TolkiensFallow* and @Shinesun14* I have no proof he takes drugs. The 11 years we were together I never saw him take drugs but would go on big drinking benders.

Thank you for the advice regarding mediation, I thought that would be the case annoyingly (as I still won't change my position until I have the information.)

He's saying his mental health team were 'surprised' by my request for information and won't provide it. Is that normal? I thought they would at least liaise with me when children are involved or risk assess? But guess may not put it in black and white until court ordered to do so.

[/quote]
People who drink quite heavily can also have alcohol induced psychosis. I've seen a family member drink themselves into it several times.

Before he applies to court he needs to do a MIAM - the onus is on him to arrange it. When the mediator calls explain you have safeguarding concerns around his mental health and that you do not want to proceed with mediation. If he wishes he can then pursue his court application.

@shinesun14 - psychosis doesn't necessarily mean months of inpatient treatment. Especially now when I believe hospitals want patients out asap, but even pre covid. I have bipolar disorder and have experienced psychosis while manic but have only been taken into hospital twice, and never longer than a week. It all depends whether the psychosis means you are a danger to yourself or others. For example, I had an episode once where I was sure I could talk to trees. I wasn't hurting anyone, I was just a bit weird to talk to, so they didn't take me into hospital. Psychosis doesn't necessarily make anyone a danger.

Also, if OP's ex was in hospital for nearly two weeks, probably being moved to new drugs etc that could have made a significant change.

OP - does your ex have a CPN or other named first line support? It sounds like he should and it would be part of their job to talk to you and maybe hear your concerns and offer advice on how his relationship with his child is best supported with both of them being protected. I'd not expect them to send you medical records or anything but they should be able to chat to you.

Fact is there will be all sorts of paperwork about him being sectioned. Anything from reports, to logged phone calls, letters maybe, notes and so on, all on the system - amongst the health professionals that are/were responsible for his care. I think you're right to want more details here.

Perhaps given him and your son have a good relationship some reassurance that you have no interest in disrupting their relationship long term would help? It must be quite frightening to have a psychotic episode. Your LO will also have needs regarding contact with his dad.

But I think you're right to be cautious and I don't think it's unreasonable that you seek assurances regarding his care. HV can see this too - if you think HV is reasonable sort, stick with that. Stick with it anyway probably - HV have lots of experience with child protection - it's big part of their job.

Fwiw I wouldn't have thought MHTeam would be remotely surprised that you want information tbh. Doesn't quite add up what he's saying. It's true they won't be able to automatically provide it to you as there are consent and confidentiality issues, but depending on who the team is - community psychiatric nurses? - they'll have seen it all before - 'surprise' doesn't really come into it given the reality of their job. They don't get 'surprised' by anything ime. Presumably a court can request it though as I think you've said - cafcass - so I think you're on the right lines.

The mental health team can’t disclose anything without his consent unless there’s a risk to the child. They’re bound by patient confidentiality. I would ask him to let you meet with him and his cpn to ask any questions. He’ll probably say no in which case I’d write the trust, explain that you are aware he has been detained, has regular unaccompanied time with your children and you want to know whether his mental health poses any risk to your child. They won’t tell you about his mental health but if there’s risk to children they would have to tell you that. It’ll help you in court to have the facts and you’ll be able to demonstrate to cafcass that you aren’t being deliberately difficult but you are being kept in the dark which makes it difficult.

FYI - the person who detained your partner should have had a conversation with his nearest relative about the detention so it’s worth talking to them. This would be a parent if alive, live in partner or other adult family member. So worth speaking to them if possible.

[quote smarty4]**@TolkiensFallow* and @Shinesun14* I have no proof he takes drugs. The 11 years we were together I never saw him take drugs but would go on big drinking benders.

Thank you for the advice regarding mediation, I thought that would be the case annoyingly (as I still won't change my position until I have the information.)

He's saying his mental health team were 'surprised' by my request for information and won't provide it. Is that normal? I thought they would at least liaise with me when children are involved or risk assess? But guess may not put it in black and white until court ordered to do so.

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To my understanding, of the sectioning had any concerns re being around his children ss would have been informed.afriend attempted suicide 3 times, once in front of the children when they were home and was still deemed to not be a safeguarding risk. So unless there's a reason to suggest otherwise it sounds unreasonable and no you jwve no rights to know of any diagnoses and are not qualified to interpret such diagnoses.

No case for refusing mediation. However, agreeing and saying it is inappropriate will get the MIAM.

I honestly think that you risk looking very unreasonable, even if the best of intentions. And would really try pursuing a third party perhaps for supervised contact for an interim period.

Sorry for delayed reply (work). Thank you everyone for your posts.
@Potteringshed I think he is under a CPN or will be shortly. Due to moving in with family he's had to move trusts so there may be some delay but a early intervention worker has already met with him.

@TolkiensFallow I guess it's reassuring his MH team haven't contacted me to break confidentiality as guess that means he's not a risk to our child. But I wonder if that's bc at present he's not physically seen our child since his admission and discharge.

He's changed his next of kin to his mother (it was his ex fiancé who I did manage to speak with to get the little information I currently know. But his mother is a whole different kettle of fish, doesn't trust professionals, doesn't believe in mental health and minimises it all so unfortunately she won't share with me any further information.

@BusyLizzie61 thanks for your reply. It's helpful to see how things are done in practice. I just wish if ExH is of no risk then why no one tells me that so I know from his MH team. I feel I'm stabbing in the dark to make a decision regarding the safety of our child with no information.

• or explain SS would have been informed of there was a risk and I can work off the basis that he therefore isn't a risk. As all I want is for face to face (normal) contact to resume provided there's no risk to our child.

Children’s services would only have been informed of a) he told them he had a child and gave names and dates of birth AND b) he was thought to post a risk to them. Many people in psychiatric hospitals have children and are not referred to Children’s Services.

[quote smarty4]@BusyLizzie61 thanks for your reply. It's helpful to see how things are done in practice. I just wish if ExH is of no risk then why no one tells me that so I know from his MH team. I feel I'm stabbing in the dark to make a decision regarding the safety of our child with no information. [/quote]
Ultimately, because you have no rights to know about his health status UNLESS it's a risk to the children.

I suppose you have to imagine the tables are reversed. Would you want him knowing your medical information? I doubt it, especially in the context of knowing they'd contact if this was an issue.