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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Deducting mortgage payment from child maintenence?

71 replies

sallysm · 11/05/2021 18:23

Does anyone have any experience whereby, the amount of CM they receive, is reduced because your Ex is paying the mortgage on your behalf?

For example, suppose after divorce, I get the home, including all equity within it and for the future. (ie, He no longer has a stake in the home)

Then factor in that I cannot for a very long time afford to take over the mortgage, but I am told that through universal credit, child maintenance and if I get myself a little job, I will be able to afford to reimburse my Ex, for the mortgage contributions he is liable to make to the bank.

However, for whatever reason, I don't reimburse him for those payments he makes. So he starts deducting the mortgage cost from what he pays as child maintenance (if not via the CMS service) or (if through the CMS service) he applies to vary the CMS amount, stating that he is paying the mortgage on my behalf, ontop of child maintenance. And that because he thinks I should be reimbursing him the monthly mortgage cost, and that he has no equity to gain from the house, then he has a right to deduct the mortgage cost from the CM amount.

Does anyone have any similar experience in how such a scenario might be treated?

I understand on the CM website, it says:

If you are a paying parent you can ask for certain expenses, which reduce your gross income, to be taken into account. These are called 'special expenses' and are for making payments on a mortgage for the home you and the receiving parent used to share – the receiving parent and the child or children must still live in the home and you must have no legal or ‘equitable’ interest in it

OP posts:
GoldenBlue · 11/05/2021 18:30

This depends on what your divorce agreement states.

Is the situation where you have the equity in the house but have not been able to remove him from the mortgage on the property?

If it states that you will be responsible for paying the future mortgage but do not make payments and therefore he becomes liable for those payments then yes I think morally and legally he would be allowed to reduce cash payments to you in exchange for making the mortgage payments on your behalf.

If however your divorce settlement states that you are both liable for mortgage payments (unlikely) then he would only be entitled to reduce by your share of the mortgage payment.

If the agreement states he's responsible for ongoing mortgage payments then no he can't reclaim it. However he would have to be a high earner for that to have been awarded as a form of spousal maintenance.

AllInTentsWithPorpoises · 11/05/2021 18:32

You'd need proper advice to cover your own case but with mine, me and kids are living in the house. I cannot afford to take on the mortgage (ex earns 4x what I earn). I pay half the mortgage plus all the bills, ex pays the other half of the mortgage but it comes out of the total of CM he pays me. So yes, in short. But always worth getting legal advice on specific cases. I wouldn't be paying him back though! EG his total CM is 1125, mortgage is 550 each so he pays 550 to mortgage co and balance to me.
We are in mediation and I am likely to get the house and he will have to stay on the mortgage until kids leave education.

zaffa · 11/05/2021 18:35

Has this situation actually happened yet? I wouldn't have thought in that scenario the ex would be continuing to make the payments, even if he had to remain on the mortgage. The mortgage company would surely have to be aware of the situation and the money would have to come from your account? Although (and I have no experience of this) surely they can't order the bank to allow you to continue the mortgage when you can't afford it, and force your husband to stay on the mortgage if he has no claim to the property, surely if he defaulted they wouldn't then be able to pursue a repossession?

Wouldn't they award the equity etc to one partner but if they couldn't have a mortgage then the property would be sold? Otherwise how could the ex move on and buy their own property?

zaffa · 11/05/2021 18:36

@AllInTentsWithPorpoises

You'd need proper advice to cover your own case but with mine, me and kids are living in the house. I cannot afford to take on the mortgage (ex earns 4x what I earn). I pay half the mortgage plus all the bills, ex pays the other half of the mortgage but it comes out of the total of CM he pays me. So yes, in short. But always worth getting legal advice on specific cases. I wouldn't be paying him back though! EG his total CM is 1125, mortgage is 550 each so he pays 550 to mortgage co and balance to me. We are in mediation and I am likely to get the house and he will have to stay on the mortgage until kids leave education.
How does that work? Can the courts force someone to remain on the mortgage? What if he defaults? Who does the bank pursue?
RachelRaven · 11/05/2021 18:37

He is only on £40k a year. Him paying your mortgage is just not a feasible long term solution here.

Can you not work at all?

AllInTentsWithPorpoises · 11/05/2021 18:41

@zaffa we are both on the mortgage and so jointly liable. The mortgage company (and mortgage companies in general as far as I am aware) give no shits about who ends up with the house at the end as that is nothing to do with them, just with who is liable and who is paying whilst the mortgage in progress.
If he defaults, I go round to his flat and find out why the fuck he has! He wouldn't though. As I mentioned above, his portion of the mortgage is also considered as CM as it keeps a roof over his children's heads. He's an arsehole but I don't think even he would stoop so low as to default on the mortgage of his kids home.

zaffa · 11/05/2021 18:46

[quote AllInTentsWithPorpoises]@zaffa we are both on the mortgage and so jointly liable. The mortgage company (and mortgage companies in general as far as I am aware) give no shits about who ends up with the house at the end as that is nothing to do with them, just with who is liable and who is paying whilst the mortgage in progress.
If he defaults, I go round to his flat and find out why the fuck he has! He wouldn't though. As I mentioned above, his portion of the mortgage is also considered as CM as it keeps a roof over his children's heads. He's an arsehole but I don't think even he would stoop so low as to default on the mortgage of his kids home.[/quote]
I don't mean your situation specifically, but the bank can only have people on the mortgage who are on the deeds - so if they default the house is collateral and if the person on the mortgage isn't on the deeds they wouldn't surely have a claim on the property?
When you come to sell; does he get a share of the equity? What happens if he wants to buy his own property, would he have to pay the extra stamp duty charges and pass extra affordability checks because he owns two properties?

I just am so surprised the courts can enforce such a financial obligation - totally agree with him paying the CM (which essentially his mortgage contributions are, right?) but surprised they can force the banks and your ex to remain in a legal commitment with each other that could have such ramifications on his opportunity to ever buy himself a home.

AllInTentsWithPorpoises · 11/05/2021 18:59

He stays on the deeds for the time being and when the kids are old enough, then I take over the remaining mortgage then and he comes off the deeds.
He earns enough that his additional mortgage capacity is over 350k even when paying this mortgage.

Couldhavebeenme2 · 11/05/2021 19:16

In your scenario -
You get all the house, including the equity
You can't afford to pay the mortgage by yourself (for whatever reason)

It is extremely unlikely that you'd ket to keep a mortgaged property if you were unable to pay the mortgage independently - lenders do not allow people (your ex) to have a mortgage without a property to secure the loan on, nor do they lend to borrowers (you) who rely on a third party (your ex) to maintain the mortgage (in lieu of maintenance).

If you can't afford to live in the property independently then it is likely to be sold. You can't tie your ex to a property he has no benefit from (and prevent him from being able to rent/buy for himself, as the affordability would be way too high).

You need to get 'a little job' ASAP so that you can become independent as soon as possible. Unfortunately as you will read from countless posts on here, exh's (and their maintenance) cannot be relied upon.

It really is that simple op. If you can't afford it, it won't happen.

(as an aside, I think you are being incredibly optimistic about receiving all of the equity, unless there are many assets you haven't mentioned - I'm sure your solicitor will talk to you about pension sharing, cash savings etc)

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 11/05/2021 19:19

You need proper legal advice, but unless court ordered he doesn't have to pay the mortgage and full CMS. Even they state he can deduce the mortgage payments from maintenance which is fair enough.

The whole repayment thing sounds complicated and too much hassle /risk of things going tits up so forgetting about that and reaching a compromise (deduction) would be best.

I have a feeling you're not the ex in this scenario though.

blackcurrantjam · 11/05/2021 19:50

My CM is basically my mortgage payments. Or I could say that I'm paying my mortgage out of work/benefits and CM is CM. Mine is a knobhead high earner too and I was a sahm while he travelled with work and spent his time in bars and restaurants. But he's Tight as fuck. Tbh I like the clean break aspect of it and am making it work and freedom beckons. It was terrifying at first but if you can be resourceful, retrain/get a job, it's totally doable on UC plus work plus CM. Lifestyle not the same but I don't have to deal with him anymore so it's a win for me.

Frankola · 11/05/2021 21:25

If you cannot afford the mortgage payments on your own the bank won't allow you the mortgage. They don't take CMS contributions as an income source.

Original poster
sallysm · 12/05/2021 00:18

So if my stbx says to me in some sort of financial proposal, that he will pay the mortgage (eg 400/month) (and because he's the only one liable to pay it) but that he won't pay CM, as paying both would render him incapable of getting a mortgage for himself for the next 16 years - is this a normal predicament? How would the court likely deal with that?

My take would be, he chose to leave, so he needs to keep paying the mortgage, which I'll never be able to take over probably, and he should also pay the required CM, which I think is 12% of his gross.

OP posts:
Original poster
sallysm · 12/05/2021 00:24

His other point, is that even if I do reimburse him the mortgage costs, he still can't get a mortgage because the bank won't take into account if I reimburse it to him or not. As such he may be trying to wrangle paying mortgage only, and explicitly not CM.

OP posts:
LemonTT · 12/05/2021 01:06

What you are asking for appears to be unreasonable. But without clear details no one can tell you for certain.

Wherever possible they will split assets as part of a clean break. You get a share each of equity, pension and savings. Usually the resident parent gets a bit more than 50% especially if there is a big difference in income and young children.

Leaving the only financial connection as child support. He won’t be penalised for leaving you. That’s life, no one is obligated to stay in a marriage if they want to leave.

The clean break settlement will rebalance any detriment to you and seek to give you enough capital to restart you life. You will be responsible for your finances without him.

Mumdiva99 · 12/05/2021 05:49

"My take would be, he chose to leave, so he needs to keep paying the mortgage, which I'll never be able to take over probably, and he should also pay the required CM, which I think is 12% of his gross"

That's not right. He would pay you a CM amount. You sell the house and split the assets. If, he agrees to remain on a mortgage then he continues to have a stake in the property.
If you feel that for whatever reason you will be awarded the full house and equity then your stb ex will come off the deeds and mortgage and no longer be liable.

He does need to look after himself as well as pay you CM. So he needs to be free to rent or buy a property. His CM is supposed to support your child not continue to support you. Sorry it is very tough.

andivfmakes3 · 12/05/2021 05:54

Just because he chose to leave doesn't mean he should be punished for it? Lots of women leave their male partners and take a lot of assets with them!

He is right in that he can deduct from CM. Why can't you work? This is usually why the family home has to be sold in these cases if the mother can't take on the mortgage

He has just as much right to be able to afford A home of equal status as you

MiddleParking · 12/05/2021 06:05

OP you are mad Grin when are you actually going to court? Can I come and watch?

paintedpanda · 12/05/2021 06:09

If you can't afford £400 to take over your mortgage, what would you do? Rent is much more expensive than that wherever you are in the country.
I don't think you can expect him to pay the mortgage and CM, just because he was the one who left.

GoldenBlue · 12/05/2021 07:02

The courts starts from a point of view of assets split 50:50 and then CM based on non resident parents earnings. The CM calculator is available on the internet.

A court won't step massively far away from the above unless there are huge amounts of assets and massive differences in earnings potential.

There is an expectation that both parties will work and earn their own living.

The court will not make a moral judgement and penalise either party leaving their marriage. No one should need to stay in an unhappy marriage for financial support reasons.

I think you are going to have to rethink what is or isn't achievable from your shared assets.

blackcurrantjam · 12/05/2021 07:28

The 'he chose to leave' thing basically means nothing.

The extra money you need for the mortgage could come in the form of enhanced CM or SM but he still needs to be able to house himself and the children if he's having them.

Also be wary of financially relying on him if it is enhanced CM in the end. Much healthier to get a job and support yourself.

GoldenBlue · 12/05/2021 07:33

Also remember if at some point he loses his job then there won't be any CM until he has another role.

It's essential you become self sufficient.

Original poster
sallysm · 12/05/2021 08:51

Hang on a sec - if he paid the mortgage for me, and paid CM, I'm sure he would still have enough to rent a place for the next 15 years, even if he would be prevented from getting a mortgage for himself. (despite mortgage monthly cost being less than rent). If that was put as a case to court, would they see that as reasonable?

Bare in mind, it's not my fault that even if I did reimburse him the monthly cost for what he pays for the mortgage, that the mortgage company won't take that into account if he comes to apply for a mortgage for a place for himself.

OP posts:
andivfmakes3 · 12/05/2021 09:03

However, for whatever reason, I don't reimburse him for those payments he makes.

Did you get a job to reimburse him?

MiddleParking · 12/05/2021 09:09

You’re looking at this in a totally crackers way. They’re not going to give you all the equity and order him to pay full CM plus the full mortgage on a house he’d have no stake in, why would they? If you could make up the money to ‘reimburse’ him then you could just pay that money directly to the mortgage yourself and he could just pay you CM, no reimbursement required. If you couldn’t make up that money, then you can’t afford to live in that house anymore.