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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

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Original poster

Custody agreement with American husband

44 replies

Parmaviolet1719 · 04/04/2021 23:07

Hi everyone, first post here.
I’m waiting to divorce my husband, we have two young kids. He is American and has indicated he will want them every other Christmas and Easter and will take them back to the USA to visit family. Obviously that means me not seeing my kids for the entire Christmas period (they’ll go for two weeks) whereas when I have them for Christmas, we’ll be staying in the UK therefore he’ll expect to spend time with them. Has anyone experienced something similar? It feels really unfair that I should have to miss the whole of Christmas with them. Just them being taken thousands of miles away from me at all will be bad enough, my youngest is only one. I’d appreciate any advice :)

OP posts:

Lineofconcepcion · 05/04/2021 00:13

Why can't he fly over to the UK for Christmas week and rent a cottage or similar? That's perfectly reasonable until the youngest child reaches school age. Then you can change the arrangements then.

So is he going to fly to the UK and take them back with him or does he think they'll fly on their own?

Lineofconcepcion · 05/04/2021 00:15

Sorry just realised he lives in the UK. ☺

Cameleongirl · 05/04/2021 00:21

My friend, whose husband is Australian, does have this arrangement with her ex. Every other year he takes them to Australia for Christmas. It’s been hard for her, but she’s managed.

Now, her children are older ( youngest was 3 when they separated) and this didn’t begin until the youngest was 5/6. I’m not saying it’s ideal, just that they’ve coped with it. I’m no idea how common this type of arrangement is.

Original poster

Parmaviolet1719 · 05/04/2021 00:27

@Cameleongirl I don’t know either. I haven’t really been able to find any info on this kind of arrangement online. I can see myself being more ok with it when the kids are older, like your friend. Right now I think they’re just too young. I mean my youngest still breastfeeds and isn’t up to even one night away from me yet. Perhaps I need to argue that it’s something that can be agreed upon for when they’re a bit older

OP posts:

Lunde · 05/04/2021 00:36

My friend from the US who divorced her Swedish husband had alternate Christmas and 50% of school holidays

CustardyCreams · 05/04/2021 00:47

Oh my god no, have you been primary carer for the kids til now? It will be traumatic if he keeps wanting to take them for big chunks of time. You don’t have to agree to 50:50, especially if typically it means you are apart from the kids in these big chunks. Is he expecting to alternate weeks the rest of the time? Is that what YOU want? What if you decide to move away, how will it work? Just no no no. They are far too young for this arrangement. And why is it selfish to want to keep your vulnerable, attached young kids close to you? Not selfish. Entirely natural. Entirely sensible, and in the interests of the kids. He is being totally unreasonable and don’t brand yourself as selfish.

Yes, I would argue that until the youngest is at school, you don’t want to be apart for the whole of Christmas, and you don’t want him taking the youngest to the US without you until they are over a certain age - for me, the very earliest would be age 3. If his rich parents are so desperate to see the kids, they can fly over here can’t they?

Typically you don’t get to dictate what an ex does with the kids during “their” time but going overseas is an exception and he is required to get your permission. It is not about being nasty, it’s the law and you aren’t obliged to agree. I wouldn’t let him take them on a fortnight to Spain either, not so little. Just not in their interests to be away from primary carer for so long.

“Alternating Christmas” usually means the holiday itself (so, no handover in the middle of 24/25/26 December. It doesn’t usually mean a massive two week break.

HeddaGarbled · 05/04/2021 00:49

I can’t see why he has to take them to the US at Christmas specifically. He could take them in the summer, or Thanksgiving, or any other suitable time of year. If he isn’t going to go to the US on ‘your’ Christmases, Christmas with his family clearly isn’t that vital. I would argue very strongly that two weeks apart from their mum at Christmas isn’t in their best interests.

TheTeenageYears · 05/04/2021 01:11

You said yourself that he wants to take them to the US for Christmas, that's not a need it's a want. He can take them for a different 2 week period in a year, but not one which will have a detrimental effect on you but more importantly an effect on the children not seeing their mum over the Christmas period at all. Maybe when they are much older that would work but not now. If his family want to see the DC over Christmas they are going to have to come to the U.K. and spend time with them during the time over the festive period that they are with their Dad.

Winterjoy · 05/04/2021 01:58

No disrespect intended OP but you sound a little naive - transatlantic custody agreements are complicated, you really need specialised legal advice.

Out of interest does your exH desire for 50/50 custody make sense in relation to his involvement and engagement as a dad for the past few years, or has it surprised you? I.e. would the children consider you both to be primary carers?

If they have spent significantly less time in his sole care to date, wouldn't it be in the best interest of the children that the relationship develop further before extended trips away from the primary carer? I guess these might be the type of things a court would take into account when looking at custody arrangements?

Harriedharriet · 05/04/2021 02:33

Be careful - wealthy American parents? There could be a very large cultural divide coming your way when the divorce starts to get serious.You really need a quiet word to a professional. If you do not have a lot of money go talk to a few charity organizations first.

VimFuego101 · 05/04/2021 02:44

@Harriedharriet

I agree, you need specialist advice. The US doesn't really care much about what other citizenship your children have and custody across different states/ countries can be tricky. Even if technically you have an agreement which states when he can take them to the US and when he must return them, if he doesn't stick to it then it will cost you a fortune to enforce it.

SallyLondon · 05/04/2021 08:22

I don't believe that a court would deem it in the best interest of a breastfeeding 1yo to be separated from their mother for an extended period like that. Their young age is on your side in this case, but I do think it's something you may have to grin and bear in future.
Do try and keep it amicable though; it's soo much easier for the kids if their parents aren't at war. Imagine growing up in that kind of toxic environment?

anxietyanonymous · 05/04/2021 08:34

Don't underestimate the hassle of flying with two small children alone. It might wear off for him.

Legal advice is expensive yes and i resisted taking any. But in the end i was so sick of being bullied i did. It was the best thing i ever did. The settlement i ended up with was double what was being offered (she was no pit bull she just got me up to the 50/50 i felt was fair).

Also think about what you WILL be able to do without them at christmas. A solo ski trip or a week of winter sun in the canaries. Or a major diy project at home or similar x i know its not easy but i have had to learn to think of things this wayz

treeeeemendous · 05/04/2021 08:54

Whilst I absolutely agree that they are too young for that at the moment, in the future I don't see it as a bad thing. My parents divorced when I was a baby. I have an amazing relationship with my dad as I spent so much time with him. Your children have two parents and I really can't see that an very other Christmas arrangement is a bad, one even as a parent (albeit not a divorced one) myself.

I will say the best thing my parents did was consistency. I used to get very upset if a situation ever arose where I had a choice (maybe a family wedding or a party on the others side for example) as I used to feel like I was choosing between my parents rather than choosing the actual event. In the end they used to work it out between them and I was told you are staying at mums this weekend instead as it's X's birthday for example.

They kept it so amicable and I am so grateful for that.

nickymanchester · 05/04/2021 09:53

You can contact the us embassy to tell them you do not want American passports issued to our dc. Details are on the embassy website under FAQ.
You can do the same with the passport office in the UK.

@somuchlaundrytowash

I don't know about the US embassy but what you say about the UK passport office is incorrect, or at least, misleading.

Applying for a child's first passport can be done by either parent with parental responsibility.

The passport office will only refuse to issue a passport if there is a court order . This will be, for example, where:-

A Prohibited Steps Order has been made
The objector has had a living with order made in their favour
A court order has been made stating that in order for another party to remove the child from England and Wales, the objector's consent is required
There is an order requiring that the passport is surrendered to the court
There is a court order preventing the passport office from issuing or re-issuing the child with a passport
There is an order preventing the child from being taken outside of the jurisdiction (England and Wales)

In the circumstances of the OP I don't think that a court would decide that it is in the children's best interests to be prevented from seeing the paternal grandparents and other family members.

Lbnc2021 · 05/04/2021 10:00

You need to get proper legal advice and not be so wishy washy about it. You said you don’t think he would do this and that, well I didn’t think my exhusband would be a bellend but here we are. If he takes them to the states and decides he’s not going to send them back you are going to have a hell of a job on your hands, the US doesn’t give up it’s own easily.

nickymanchester · 05/04/2021 10:02

Just to add to my previous post, he will need your permission to actually take the children out of the country. But, If you do not consent to the holiday your exH is entitled to make an application to the Court for what is known as a specific issue order to request permission to travel.

Unless there is a safeguarding concern or a risk that he will not return with the children it is likely that such an application would be granted. It is important therefore that you consider fully the reasons why you are not willing to consent.

RandomMess · 05/04/2021 10:02

There is a difference between needs and wants.

There is also a big difference between what is suitable aged 18 months and 5 years.

You insist on only a week each maximum at Christmas alternating. You could suggest his parents come here.

You can agree that he has works up to having them for 2 weeks at a time and can have 2 weeks at Easter and in the summer once the youngest is older.

I think he will get a surprise at the reality of flying with them himself.

I agree you need to get clued up on the legalities and they don't leave the country until it's resolved.

He needs to start with having the youngest overnight without you and then build up to days and then a week then 10 days etc!!!

Bilabila · 16/09/2023 23:04

Hey, I know this is an old thread but I’m ina similar situation. Ex husband wants to take my two young children for summer holidays and Christmas as he is American and is based in America

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