Parental alienation - it’s getting worse

[Flappypants]

Hi all

I left my ex nearly four years ago, after being in an abusive, coercive marriage with financial, emotional, sexual and physical abuse at the core. Thanks to MN wonderwomen (and men), we ended up in a refuge. My DS (8) has SEN and we have a DD (4) who is a pocket rocket. The divorce was torrid, he tried to paint me as a loon (put me through forensic psychologist, tried to have me sectioned etc etc - on no grounds whatsoever other than his success at gaslighting and abusing me), it cost me £100k to get shot of him etc and he’s managed to get 50/50 care built up over time by Easter coming.

Both DC come home saying awful things. Daddy’s says this, that...they have a half sister (20!) from his first marriage who also drips poison in their ears as she has moved in with him in lockdown. The latest (among things like “Daddy says you made him move out, Big Sis says you were like the evil stepmother in Cinderella” etc etc) is that “Daddy says you only care about yourself and not us and Sis says you only love money (hilarious as I’m the least money-orientated person I know 🤣)”. I’ve been listening to this tide of shite for so long now and those poor kids have to listen to lies and poison about their mother from two people they should be able to trust. I am assiduous in joy denigrating their father to them but I am reaching the stage where I now need to address this issue. DS is nearly 9 and DD nearly 5. I just say “oh dear Daddy’s just sing silly isn’t he, you know what’s right, you know your Mummy, don’t worry and I’m sorry you had to hear that, it isn’t fair on you guys” etc etc but the messaging is constant and destructive and needs to stop! How? Help!! If I can’t address it legally realistically how can I address it when we don’t speak and he continues the abuse beyond the marriage?

I totally and utterly understand. I left my abusive ex-husband years ago thinking things would get better for me and my boys. They were just 3 and 6 at the time. His anger that I had "humiliated his manliness" by leaving Superdad/Superhusband meant revenge. He applied for full custody of the kids for no good reason other than to hurt me. He got 50/50.
Seven years on and he's taking me to court yet again for more custody. He has been alienating the boys (now 10 and 13) for many years, but it got a lot worse when he found out I was pregnant with my fiancé's baby (bsby is now 8 months). He told the kids baby would be "born a retard" because of my age (39) and that I never wanted them, I only ever wanted a girl and that is the reason I left their dad.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Unfortunately PA is not recognised in family law and looks some way off from it. It is very real and completely devastating.
Both of my boys have significant issues as a result and I feel like I'm grieving for boys that I no longer feel like a mum to. I don't hold out much hope for a good outcome in court as nobody recognises the abuse.

@Flappypants The whole system is just so bloody wrong!! How can you have been subjected to all of that, had to go to a refuge, And yet he got 50/50?!!
My ex was also abusive. I still can't talk about everything but some of the things he did included taking my purse so I couldn't buy food, locking me out of the house if I didn't come back before his "curfew" and suddenly taking my eldest for a week without me knowing where he was. I'm suffering with PTSD as a result for which I am having treatment.
And still there is the very real chance of my children being with him more than they are with me. It often feels unbearable xx

The law, the system, is an ass.

My worst case scenario has come to pass as like you, he was never involved with the children. I tried to prove it but the courts try to allow them “to prove themselves and improve their parenting”, not taking into account their manipulation, abuse and unpleasantness and eventual damage to the children. I try and console myself that the damage would have been much worse had i stayed and let them believe that their father was normal and that the abuse was acceptable and how families work. Hopefully just by having a different outlook half the time they can be protected but I hear horror stories of children choosing the abuser over the normal parent.

@Flappypants Sadly that is exactly what my two boys are doing. They know they must do what their dad wants and have to say they want to be with him more. I'm terrified as I know this could mean losing them all together.
Had the most horrendous dreams again last night but then that is nothing new. Flashbacks are now a part of my life. I honestly can't say whether it was the right thing to leave him. Hugs to you x

@Oldat40 I was abused and I know that it was the right thing to leave him but honestly I sometimes think it would be better if I’d just stayed with him because at least that way I could try and protect the children.

The courts take a dim view of "hostile parenting"

I sould suggest counselling for you -RELATE or other -on your own and then group / family counselling with the boys.

Be clear -ie so x made y comment -do you want to talk about it?

I know it is isn't helpful but ex tells my youngest I did x y z and I didn't but he is learning. Counselling and therapy are your friends here before they do any more damage.

Op I know your dc are still young but don't give up.. I left when dc were 3, 5 +6. He told school I was dead. Dc were told in time I was a prostitute... He reported me to benefits for fraud - untrue. Tried to get me jailed for none payment of parking tickets (on a car he kept in the divorce!)
I won't lie I had ptsd symptoms - I didn't push for an actual diagnosis he could use against me. Ended up 7 stone not 9.
I did move on with my life as best I could. At 12 +14 the youngest 2 went nc with their df. Sadly the oldest dc had been manipulated beyond a relationship..
It is tough. Keep going is all I can suggest. Keep building that relationship with your dc. My exh greatly underestimated a bond between dm and dc. My dc have seen him at 3 funerals in over 4 years. Nothing between them now at all.

Yes my kids are now 10 and 13 and the PA has being going on for so long now I think the damage is done. Breaks my heart.

I don’t really have any advice on the legal situation but wanted to say that my dad physically abused my mum both before and after they separated and when ever we stayed with him he would try to alienate us from our mum by saying horrible things about her.
Even as a child I felt horribly uncomfortable hearing the things he said and I knew that they weren’t true, as soon as we were old enough to decide for ourselves we stopped having any contact with him at all. Hopefully your kids will feel the same eventually.
I feel awful for any child in this situation though because I found it really hard to deal with not helped by the fact that I never wanted to tell my mum about the things he said in case it upset her so I really advise that you make sure your kids are able to keep talking to you about it and without worrying about you being upset.

@AzureHawker this is my tactic for sure x

Just seen this thread and hope you don't mind me posting.

My DB is in a very similar position in that he has just come out of a highly abusive and coercively controlled marriage.
He had no support where he lived and had no choice but to come to me (I had no clue what was going on).

He thought he was doing the best thing (not through choice) in the short term by agreeing to the DC temporality staying with his in-laws (stbxw has addiction issues) but is facing parental alienation and obstruction in contact on every level. Far from remaining neutral and facilitating contact (as they promised) the grandparents have taken sides and are becoming increasingly difficult to communicate with. They ignore emails, texts, phone calls..

DB travels 3 hours each way EOW to bring the DC here but is often met with being told that his DD (10)!doesn't want to talk to him and won't come. It was agreed that he would be able to speak to them each day at 5 but their mobile will be switched off. The DC are being told he doesn't love them, that he has left them and that we are criticising their DM (categorically untrue).

He is waiting for a CAFCASS interview pending a residency hearing in May (he wants the DC to live with him) but this systematic parental alienation that is breaking his heart.
He is a wonderful Dad who has always been very hands on and it seems like there is nothing he can do to insist his children regularly see and speak to him.