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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Best way to sever complicated property arrangement?

26 replies

beautysloth · 30/12/2020 14:55

Me and my partner are considering separating. I would like to have all my ducks in a row to protect myself financially as he has the potential for significant gain over me.

Firstly I have a good private pension, he is self employed and does not have a private pension or savings despite me encouraging him plenty over the last 8 years. He is aware I have a decent final salary pension although I don't think he would necessarily understand what that means. While I understand he is entitled to some of this my preference is of course that there is no share. I am 30 years old if that is relevant.

Secondly we jointly own our house. There is an informal financial arrangement between us and my parents. They released equity from their own home to buy our house outright, we pay the mortgage on their property and the aim was to remortgage at the end of the 5 year deal to pay them the outstanding balance thus giving us a mortgage on our property. We had some work done in the house and got a small 30k mortgage to pay for this last year so technically there is 20something outstanding as a mortgage however informally we owe the significant amount to my parents. My preference, of course, would be that I remain in the home with the children as the house is on my parents estate who provide a lot of support around childcare.

Financially my parents could support me to pay a sum of money to my partner in exchange for him not touching the house or my pension however I do not know what is fair or reasonable to suggest or how this would be formalised?

My husband has a semi public profile with potential to make quite a bit more income in the future if he so chooses to apply himself. I am considering using this as bargaining, if he leaves my pension and accepts a lump sum to relinquish the property I will not try to claim any of his money in the future? Is that such a thing and does this sound like a fair proposal?

OP posts:
Theunamedcat · 30/12/2020 14:58

Whose name is the house actually in?

GintyMcGinty · 30/12/2020 15:00

I'd really recommend you speak to a solicitor

Daydrambeliever · 30/12/2020 15:03

Depends on who's name the house was bought? This has the potential to shaft your parents quite considerably.
You switch from partner to husband. Are you married?
How reasonable do you expect him to be?

Superstardjs · 30/12/2020 15:05

I took less equity in exchange for him not touching my pension. Unless you are going to give him a huge payoff, I cannot imagine his solicitor agreeing to your offer.

Original poster
beautysloth · 30/12/2020 15:09

The house is jointly in mine and my husband (same thing as partner sorry) name as my parents 'gifted' us the money.

OP posts:
Original poster
beautysloth · 30/12/2020 15:11

@Daydrambeliever

Depends on who's name the house was bought? This has the potential to shaft your parents quite considerably. You switch from partner to husband. Are you married? How reasonable do you expect him to be?
Honestly I expect him to be reasonable for the sake of the kids but you don't know how these things are going to pan out. He has the potential to make substantial amounts of money in the future (and he believes he can) and I don't want a penny
OP posts:
Theunamedcat · 30/12/2020 16:36

Did they legally gift both of you the money? Is there any clause in the agreement about death or divorce?

Is it in the agreement that the two of you pay off there mortgage for five years before remortgage in your names?

MrsBertBibby · 31/12/2020 08:53

You need to see a solicitor. I am a family solicitor and couldn't possibly advise on this info and format.

Your parents should also take separate advice.

This has the potential to be a real mess, I fear.

NewYearHere20 · 31/12/2020 09:18

Asking to keep your home AND your pension in-tact seems a bit of a big ask to me. You mention your parents could help you out - but do you have any provision to pay them back? I'm not sure that your STBXH potential future earnings would have much bearing. Certainly when I divorced future earnings weren't even considered.
Agree with others you need legal advice before you go any further - and your husband does too ;)

muddledmidget · 31/12/2020 09:22

How old is he and how long have you been married? Is there any paperwork as to how much you owe your parents or was it done informally? As I would think if there was paperwork it would be considered a debt in the marriage to be repaid, but if it was done informally it looks like the house is just an asset so I would think he would have a claim for half the value.

milienhaus · 31/12/2020 09:25

This sounds very complicated ... so the only debt that actually has your/your DHs name on it is the £30k mortgage? If this is the case it sounds like he could be entitled to half the house (less the £30k mortgage) and half your pension CETV as a starting point, and the informal debt arrangement with your parents is now just your problem? Is definitely speak to a solicitor ASAP ...

Smidge001 · 31/12/2020 09:25

I don't think you would have any claim on or right to your husbands future earnings at all. So I don't see how that could be any sort of bargaining tool.
You want both the house and the pension. So what does he get out of this? Nothing as far as I can see. I don't think his solicitor would advise he agree to that at all.

PotteringAlong · 31/12/2020 09:28

He’s entitled to half the house. I cannot believe your parents were daft enough to give you a massive sum Of money and jeopardise their own house based on an informal agreement!

IndecentFeminist · 31/12/2020 09:30

How long is the marriage? Can't be very long if you're only 30?

IndecentFeminist · 31/12/2020 09:30

And surely your current pension pot can't be worth that much if you are only 30?

sonicbook · 31/12/2020 09:31

You can't use potential future earnings as a bargaining tool.

sonicbook · 31/12/2020 09:32

He's entitled to half the house. Whether he pursues it or not is another thing. There should have been a watertight legal document protecting your parents' contribution.

Palavah · 31/12/2020 09:35

@beautysloth

The house is jointly in mine and my husband (same thing as partner sorry) name as my parents 'gifted' us the money.
It's definitely not the same thing legally.
Cotti · 31/12/2020 09:36

If he decides to he's likely to get half the value of the house unless you have a legal agreement you can show with your parents.....this is all a huge mess. If you haven't already separated I'd get him to agree and sign financial agreements first not during divorce proceedings.

Potplant · 31/12/2020 09:37

I don’t think his future earnings come into it, he might not make any of it.

Lump sum to buy him out seems like the way forward. Get proper legal advice though.

Original poster
beautysloth · 31/12/2020 09:42

@Smidge001

I don't think you would have any claim on or right to your husbands future earnings at all. So I don't see how that could be any sort of bargaining tool. You want both the house and the pension. So what does he get out of this? Nothing as far as I can see. I don't think his solicitor would advise he agree to that at all.
There’s plenty of case law to suggest otherwise that’s why clean breaks are recommended. A man won the lottery and his ex he divorced 10 years prior got 2 million out of it. Protecting future earnings should absolutely be taken into consideration and that’s why i assumed I could use it as bargaining.

Thanks all will see a solicitor. He won’t be unfair I don’t think it’ll be that much of a problem but I guess I wanted to know how we legally lay down the agreement

OP posts:
boymum9 · 31/12/2020 09:53

100% see a good solicitor.
My ex h gifted us, but legally at that point just him (but was a house for us both to live in) money to outright by a house, this was 12 years ago, since then we've moved multiple times and as it stands right now with our financial situation and kids, I am entitled to get 100% equality out of our house (not that I plan on doing that, doesn't seem fair to me!!) but I remember her saying that although the money was gifted to him prior to marriage, because it's been used on family homes since it's just as much "mine", but our situations are different in that I literally had to give up any possibility of my career for him, then we had children and he wanted to start a new business so I stayed home with them so he could do that.
It's really not black and white and can get very complicated, if he's able to reasonably support himself and lifestyle, he won't necessarily be entitled to anything from it.
Just make sure to find a good highly rated solicitor.

TitsOot4Xmas · 31/12/2020 10:21

@beautysloth

The house is jointly in mine and my husband (same thing as partner sorry) name as my parents 'gifted' us the money.
Except they didn’t.
trevorandsimon · 01/01/2021 20:29

This doesn't make sense. Just because your parents gifted you the money it doesn't mean the house is in both your names. It is in both your names if that is how you bought it, regardless of who gave you money.
And the future earnings thing isnt that people used it as a bargaining tool for the future in the present. It was because they didn't get a consent order signed off so there was potential to vary the financial order in the future after the divorce was finalised. It doesn't mean you can factor future earnings in as part of the deal when diciding on the financial split when divorcing.

You need to add up the value of all assets, your pension, the property minus debts, to parents and bank, cars, savings etc and then whatever is left you divvy up percentage wise. 50/50, 60/40 if you have the kids predominantly etc. Your husband (presuming he is, as it isnt the same thing in law as partner) is entitled to a share of everything too. You seem to want it all!

Original poster
beautysloth · 13/01/2021 10:31

@trevorandsimon

This doesn't make sense. Just because your parents gifted you the money it doesn't mean the house is in both your names. It is in both your names if that is how you bought it, regardless of who gave you money. And the future earnings thing isnt that people used it as a bargaining tool for the future in the present. It was because they didn't get a consent order signed off so there was potential to vary the financial order in the future after the divorce was finalised. It doesn't mean you can factor future earnings in as part of the deal when diciding on the financial split when divorcing.

You need to add up the value of all assets, your pension, the property minus debts, to parents and bank, cars, savings etc and then whatever is left you divvy up percentage wise. 50/50, 60/40 if you have the kids predominantly etc. Your husband (presuming he is, as it isnt the same thing in law as partner) is entitled to a share of everything too. You seem to want it all!

It is in both our names and the money was gifted, they are the facts? Both our names on the title deeds, money formally gifted so we hold 100% equity however informally we pay this back.

For an update we have come to a suitable arrangement and he is happy to sign something to acknowledge the debt.

OP posts: